We have not seen the last of the witch hunter. We know Pastor Thomas Muthee was back in Wasilla this past weekend, and I posted a link previously of Sarah Palin recounting the time that Pastor Muthee had prayed over her, but now a video of the actual event has surfaced. Do not, I repeat do not watch this if you plan on sleeping any time soon. It’s a long clip, but here are the highlights:
2:57 – First mention of Sarah
5:00 – We need God to ‘take over the education system.’
5:27 – We need God to ‘take over the media’ and Hollywood itself.
6:08 – We need the government run by born-again Christians.
6:58 – Praying for Sarah to become governor (Doesn’t this impact their tax-exempt status? Anyone?)
7:12 – Sarah herself enters and is “prayed upon”.
8:38 – Another witchcraft reference.
Oh boy. The suspension of Mcain’s campaign, the beyond devastating Couric interview, Return of the Witch Hunter and the takeover of every facet of society by God, and the (strangely credible these days) National Enquirer releasing a story about an affair with Todd’s business partner…all in 24 hours. Not a good day for the McCain-Palin campaign.
It appears as if Pastor Muthee is working hard to fulfill the vision statement of his church, known as “The Prayer Cave”:
“Touching lives for total community transformation, thereby taking cities and nations.”
Resistance is futile, Wasilla. You have been assimilated. I wonder if Palin mentioned “taking cities and nations” for God during her chat yesterday with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai?
I’ll be sleeping with the lights on tonight.
Mudflats 
I was raised a Christian and went to a Pentecostal church for a while, and watching that was odd even for me. Her church is like an uber-evangelical mishmash of the worst qualities of these kinds of churches. Thank Buddha I got away from that twisted world view.
Are we seeing the final nail(s) in the coffin of the McCain campaign? I really hope so.
To me this seems like it would the most damning piece of evidence against Palin along with all the other baggage that she has carried into this campaign.
I guess those who would scream the loudest are behind this. After all Democrats are known to be more tolerant and inclusive party.
This site has a lot of useful background on the lunatic, but potentially very dangerous beliefs of the end-timers :
http://www.talk2action.org/
I feel we are at the cross-roads of some momentous clash of “worlds” – and that metaphor doesn’t even make sense. But neither does this moment. The unhinged quality of mcShame’s campaign, and his dim, dark bulb, Dame mcShame, make for such a lethal potion. And in the face of all that is emerging or lurching forward by the hour, the Obama campaign, and with it the nation, has a difficult time simply gripping reality and hanging on for dear life. I truly worry that the inmates are in control of the asylum.
Alaska, god help you. I truly mean that.
America, god help us.
This religious fanatacism of Palin has terrified me as soon as I heard she was McCains pick. The potential of her being at the helm if something should happen to him shakes me to my core. I cannot believe this election is so close.
Here in Japan very few people are aware of this side of things – and those who are can’t help but think it’s some sort of gigantic comedy routine. They just can’t believe this could be for real.
It’s like we are having a bad nightmare and we can’t wake up. There is nothing comical about it.
The republicans are allowing her to meet heads of state. It is unbelievable.
AZtopcat:
Very few heads of state actually. I’d like to see the list of those who declined. I bet it’s a long one.
They are only heads of state who definitely owe things to Bush.
As far as I’m concerned one is too many.
Oh man….I won’t be sleeping good tonight……..not cool.
I am beginning to feel like we have all been on the tilt-a-whirl at the amusement park far too long right after eating and it stopped being amusing the first time the dude would not let us off the ride!!!!!!!
Obama got beaten up in the media for just being a member of the same church as Rev Wright.
WHY is Sarah Palin getting a free pass with her truly insane religious posturing?
This video is disturbing on so many levels.
Most of all that Sarah Palin shows more respect to a witch hunting minister than a sitting member of the Senate as she so mean spiritely disrespected Obama in her convention speech.
People like Sarah use their religion to justify everything. She doesn’t hav eto be civil because she is doing it in the name of Jesus.
Google this, End Times, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revealations Christian blog and you will get better understanding of her religous affiliation.
Isn’t Sarah Palin violating Alaska State and Federal hiring laws by asking about personal beliefs and convictions when state employees are being interviewed?
I keep hoping the suspension of the campaign will be permanent, and the Republican party will come out next week with a whole new ticket–like Huckabee/Romney or something. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? They could say McCain’s doctor gave him a medical bye, ship Sarah back to Alaska, and be wiser when 2012 comes around, knowing she wasn’t such the star they thought.
Unlike Obama who distanced himself from & denounced a preacher for un-Christian/un-inclusive statements that preacher made when he wasn’t around, Palin participates completely, willfully – center stage – in a hands on, palms up, religious ceremony that equates Islam & Buddhism with “withcraft.” He clearly says this before she gets up and recieves his blessing. She had every opportunity not to participate.
Right wing nut jobs will try to find decency in this “docile” example of faith, but make no mistake about it, she is not interested in the separartion of church & state. The entire theme of the sermon which led to her annointing ceremony is that this separation must end. It is only her religion and her concept of god with witch she is interested. Where’s Dorothy when we need her?
Aztopcat
Scares me, too. Even without this video, the part about her thinking Jesus is returning in her lifetime, and McCain thinking our confrontation with Iran could mean we’re facing Armageddon (on MTP a while ago) leaves me very nervous about whether this crew (you know SP would bring in a bunch of like-minded people) will believe God has chosen them to bring about armageddon. The small g gods are having fun with me about this, as my Palin name is Taupe Armageddon.
I really do think the Couric interview and this video were reason enough for McCain to shout “Look over here! Look over here!” yesterday to distract us.
Palin-McCain have definitely had a bad week, and it’s not even over yet.
I’m looking forward to the debate on Friday, but I won’t hold my breath. It wouldn’t surprise me if McCain pulled another stunt before then!
The only good thing about Thursday: supposedly McCain is suspending his campaign ads, giving us all a break from the farce, but he’ll probably go “flippity floppity” (re: sign watchers!! 😀 ) on this one too!!
Go Obama-Biden ’08!
This video scares me very much and I do have just one answer: Jezus, safe us from all those newborn christians. Let’s all join the humanistic society.
Ooooh, I just found an old video on youtube of Sarah palin offering to make Craig Ferguson an honourary citizen of Alaska, a year ago.
He remarks on her ‘naughty librarian’ vibe and reckons she was coming on to him. Her hair looks shite as well, she has it down and scrunch dried with too much mousse. Or moose.
She said ‘This is God’s country’ and ‘the sun shines around the solstice’. Wtf?
Solstice is twice a year, when the day and night are of equal length.
She CHOSE to send that video in. She is an ignoramus.
I grew up in this type of church, and trust me, I was on the receiving end of a paddle more times than not while I was growing up because I dared to question their beliefs. Even at ca. 5 years old, none of what I was being told resonated with me in the least. Those are the people they prey (pray) upon–those who would blindly follow and not even consider asking the questions a 5-year old would ask.
Still concerned that McCombOver is in cahoots with Bubba and something’s going to go awry today. Wish I could remember where I read/heard this yesterday, but one report was saying that Bubba’s been sitting on this “plan” for a while waiting for the perfect time to create another Climate of Fear to sway the vote. If so, I bet Dub’s wishing Sen. McFibbyBriches had handled himself in a more reassuring manner last week.
we’re not falling for it…fool me once…fool me twice won’t get fooled again…”
Sorry 700 billion is too high- they can have a hundred or so.
AKM – Have been loving this blog and the other Alaska blogs you link to, and ADN.com (and the photo galleries especially). I’ve really come to love Alaska and its people more than I ever would have done without all of this (I have family who pine after Alaska. My sister is just home from an annual visit). It’s an incredibly beautiful place (and I hail from Vermont. We’re no slouches in the scenic department), and you’ve made it clear how appealingly quirky and independent the people are. Your politics are in a mess, but there is a lot of courage from a lot of people in and out of government. I’d think it was hard not to root for you all against the forces of dark McCain even if I weren’t an Obama supporter. So thank you for introducing so many of us to this place. Tourism is bound to flourish in the wake of this (which may or may not be a good thing for you all?)
Even Ahmadinejad knows better, he made it clear on Larry King live that he would prefer not to be associated with her.
So this is what Craig Ferguson has to say about McCain suspending his campaign:
This is especially relevant since he is was made an honorary citizen of Alaska just recently. (Reference: Rachel from London (02:41:41))
He makes some really good points, especially at the end of his monologue.
I am not a lemming.
I am not a robot.
And I am not a Borg.
I am a human being with a mind of my own, and I have no desire to be “taken” for anyone else’s narrow-minded, petty, intolerant version of their god. Leave me the %@#$ alone, you freaks.
This pastor is great! Maybe we can get him to sprinkle a little magic powder and make the rest of the world disappear; then all of the oil would be ours. He could even sprinkle a little more magic powder and make all of the cars run on air. Just think-no pollution.
Holy t*tty-effin’ christ!!
I can’t wait for this to be an Obama ad…
It amazes me how (other than Chris, Keith and Rachel) most of the accurate info comes from the late night guru’s…they don’t care, they can put the truth out there without fear of backlash, waahooo
Just wondering where to next on this insanity train? I read this morning this McSenile thing is a miserable attempt to put off the VP debate, oh – and we didn’t see that coming.
Seems McNutty has been given enough rope (so to speak) and finally the whole campaign is spontaneously imploding on them. It’s become a National Enquirer feeding frenzy, it feels like we’re in an altered reality sitcom not a presidential election year…time to pop more corn and stay tuned for the next exciting campaign ‘episode’!
I’m going to keep saying this until people listen. I am 72, same age as McCain, and I am a Republican so I feel I had a right to say it. The Social Security actuarial tables say that a 72 YO man has a 1 in 3 chance of dying in the next 8 years. That same 72 YO man has a 15% chance of dying in the next 4 years. If McCain wins there’s a chance you might be saying President Palin. Scary isn’t it?
Moose – field dress – description
http://www.adn.com/life/story/536563.html
While I would not go to this church, I think the umbrage at this video is ridiculous. This minister is a visitor, Obama’s was the resident. This minister prayed for Sarah, and he said “even in the political arena”, which is quite different from what we’ve heard in Chicago where they’ve openly endorsed Obama. He doesn’t say “God damn America” or anything like this. His references to witchraft, or other religions as such bother me as I don’t believe schools should teach people about religion at all, other to discuss origin, and some of the customs. This isn’t damning of her as a candidate per se, but I know I’ll never go to that church.
What scares me most about this video is the place, about 1:30 into the video, where he says that the economic system, the banks, should be controlled by Christians and (apparently he’s saying) not by Jews. It’s a little hard to say if this is exactly what he intends–his sentence structure rambles all over the place–but immediately after talking about the need for Christians to run the economy he makes a reference to “Israelites,” and it’s hard not to read this as antisemitism.
Why is this important? Because if McCain/Palin are elected then there will be WWIII in the Middle East.
http://goesdownbitter.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/crusade/
loud elf, please read my earlier post & think again
Heh. Why doesn’t Palin bring Muthee to D.C. to annoint everyone involved with the Bailout? Better yet, why doesn’t she insist that we call off all the hearings, and let Muthee solve our economic problems? Yes, Sarah. Go to Congress today and demand that we put the country in Muthee’s hands!
I can assure most folks on this site that very few moderate Christians are aware of this extreme behavior, and until they actually SEE AND EXPERIENCE this video for themselves, they will continue to think this is the evil Left trying to blaspheme “The One” (The Nation’s Cover Story) Sarah Palin. It is critical that this video is shown continually – not only on MSNBC, but on FOX and other conservative shows. For those of us in the Bible Belt, please! Write your Letters to the Editor with a link to this thread for people to see.
There was a reason that Jefferson so strongly advocated separation of church and state, and was one of the very reasons our country was founded. In a “normal” election cycle, I would state that Palin has a right to believe and practice her faith as she wants. The difference is that over the past decade the Republicans have continually inserted a faith-based platform into the mainstream until even the more conservative Christians don’t believe the real agendas behind Palin and CUFI until they experience it for themselves. It is important we help them get back to reality before it is too late.
henry porter — give Palin 20 years to do this after associating with this person on a regular basis, and OK, you’ll have a point. Weak argument. Ooh, there’s a straw, grasp at it. This is a visiting minister, Wright was there all of the time spewing this diatribe. Obama even claimed he was unaware… get the shovel. If you want to find a negative with Palin, look at her platform, but stretching for this is the definition of desperate.
it looks like loudelf is playing devil’s advocate (no pun intended)
No, just pointing out some hypocrisy. I’d focus on the issues of gun control, a woman’s right to choose, and so on if you really want to sink Palin.
And elves are not devils… we are cute and don’t use pitchforks.
sorry…I should have explained myself
loudelf just shows us that their “babe” could show up with REAL horns and a tail, and the right-wing SHEEP would still swear she’s god’s gift to us!
Deb,
This is a partisan thing. Democrats, as demonstrated here are out to demonize her here because she’s a) a Republican, and b) stolen a lot of the star power from their candidate. Republicans, suddenly are in love with her because she’s a) a Republican, and b) because she could gain a lot of disgruntled Hillary voters. Both sides are sheep, don’t be fooled.
well….this is the oddest election….but I have to go to work….you all have fun and play nice!
loud…why bother with “vetting”? one last note…I bet the vetting question doesn’t include being “annointed” by a witch hunter?
Loudelf: Visiting Ministers usually just spot light the beliefs of the standing minister, I’m sure he wouldn’t have been invited back this week in particular if he wasn’t such a good draw filling up the pews, thereby increasing the base. As to the minister that has been preaching to Palin these past many years, there is plenty of video of him too, as soon as they hit Youtube, we will get the rest of the picture.
This is what you get when you forgo science and cling to religion.
As a good friend of mine (a scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory – responsible for the engines that brought us the Moon landings) says in the signature of his mails:
What percentage of Americans thinks that pro-wrestling is real and NASA is fake ?
Now with this minister thing, there are at least 9 reasons why McCain is suspending his campaign. Can you add any to the list?
1. Rick Davis and $15,000 payment per month from Freddie as recently as last month.
2. Minister issue.
3. National Enquirer.
4. Criminal investigation on witness tampering.
5. Katie Couric interview with Palin.
6. Fundamentals strong er… not strong — theme for a day on the economy.
7. Didn’t study for the debate (test) so he’s pulling the fire alarm. (You remember those types from high school.)
8. Polling is tanking.
9. He’s not getting any attention. Palin gets campaign attention. Legislators are getting all the attention in Washington.
Have I missed any?
Hi loudelf,
I respect your position and your concerns regarding the candidates, but I hope you will show the same respect to everyone here as well.
I gather from your posts that you support a different candidate then most folks here on this forum, so if you don’t like what your read here, maybe you should consider going to a forum that supports your candidate.
Addition Reasons McCain suspended his campaign
10. His doctor is worried about him staying up so late
11. His mad as ‘ell and had enough of Bush’s administration
It looks as though Troopergate is going to elbow its way up front with Rep. Les Gar’s direction. Go Gara!!!
It is nice to see that not everyone in Alaska is afraid to speak out publically.
Click to access 92408paperwork.pdf
Let’s see if the MSM picks this up before the debate. I really hope they do, because I really want to hear McCain/Palin explain the coup.
btw the first mention of srah is like 10 secs in 😉
🙄
I hope everyone appreciates the fact that trolls are loud elfs – loudelf is simply telling you that he/she/it is a troll and not worthy of feeding.
Where’s the IRS on the tax status of this church?
Andy AKA Plop Hero
According to the following Politico article, Palin may also suspend her campaign. Would this not be a perfect time for she and Todd to return to Alaska and testify as promised.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13883.html
Well this proves shes a nut job.
No Way she needs to be close to the buttons.
MJC,
If you think that me despising hypocrisy, or my statement of “Both sides are sheep, don’t be fooled.” indicates preference for a candidate… you may want to go back to school.
This elf doesn’t like his choices, and “prays” for some third and real option to miraculously appear. That shoud be aparent.
@Rachel
just a point of information: The solstice is the longest/shortest day of the year and comes twice a year. June and December. The days of equal day/night lenght are the equinoxes.
@MJC
Well said!
I’ve personally done my research and made my selection, emphasis on ‘my’ selection, what suits my view of the future. And I take great comfort in coming to a blog with like-minded people. While everyone is entitled to their opinions on these candidates, the LAST thing on my mind is hunting down a blog that shares a totally different view of mine and shoving my opinions down their throats. Why, what’s the point?
As if we don’t know there are differing views. It would be paradise if people made their selection, hang out with their supporters and give it a break. Too much bickering going on, not enough focus on the important matters…
@geraldine –
This just gives the Rovian Party handlers more time to train Sarah. That’s all it is. It’s a brilliant move if the American public doesn’t think and accepts it at face value. Hopefully by now, most people realize that Mr. McCain’s candidancy has been a game of cat and mouse; smoke and mirrors; a candidancy with little heft and depth. IF they take the time to look at the FACTS and realize they are being played, it will pi** them off and they will leave in droves.
BJA (05:06:41) :
Now with this minister thing, there are at least 9 reasons why McCain is suspending his campaign. Can you add any to the list?
1. Rick Davis and $15,000 payment per month from Freddie as recently as last month.
2. Minister issue.
3. National Enquirer.
4. Criminal investigation on witness tampering.
5. Katie Couric interview with Palin.
6. Fundamentals strong er… not strong — theme for a day on the economy.
7. Didn’t study for the debate (test) so he’s pulling the fire alarm. (You remember those types from high school.)
8. Polling is tanking.
9. He’s not getting any attention. Palin gets campaign attention. Legislators are getting all the attention in Washington.
Have I missed any?
——————————-
Yes. And I am serious about this.
10. The man is physically dying. His family must do an intervention. Now.
@loudelf
Comparing the Rev. Wright to the WitchMD is tilting the reality.
Sarah Palin belongs to big church in a small town, right? She is, as “her history tells us”, a leader, not a follower. Pastor Thomas Muthee was invited Wasilla. I am sure that Sarah Palin was part of the Wasilla Assembly’s elders inviting process.
I am not 100 % positive but I would bet dinner in NYC that Sarah Palin had a clear and loud voice in Church decisions. It is her nature to be a part of leadership. If she was a part of the church leadership Palin would probably start her own church.
In all likelihood the church elders heard and or read about the WitchMD and his ways and decided they wanted to offer to there congregation what he has so they extended an invitation. In advance they posted his coming in the church announcements and bulletins so people could plan to come and see and hear the Pastor from Kenya.
I belong to a great church, and we are never given a heads up on the Rev.’s topic, unless the Rev is a visiting Pastor. And, they the Pentecostal as fervent as they can be, never drag one up for an alter call or to be prayed over. She walked up to Pastor Muthee knowingly.
loudelf,
There is no need for you to hurl insults. There is an Independant Candidate that you can vote for, so maybe you should check out his forum.
So the choice, take a shot at a candidate because she was at a church that allowed a religious ideologue to visit, or take a shot at a candidate that was involved not only in a church that was headed by a religious and racist ideologue, but also called him a friend, and only denounced him after the media exposed his views. Personally, I don’t like either, but am willing to give a pass for a infrequent visitor over a regular leader.
Haven’t seen the video yet…it’s too early in the morning, but I did venture out to pick up our local morning paper…..live in Northern Calif. There is nothing about the Couric interview, financial crisis is big news, cancellation of the debate not that significant & Sister Sarah warns of another Depression. If this was my only source of news I would be clueless to what is really going on.
MJC,
It’s insulting to have someone impose their slanted view upon you through assumption. So, I’ll hurl away at someone who does this.
There are several other candidates, but realistically, no one that can win. I will be voting for one of the 3rd party candidates as I just can’t hold my nose and pick one of these 2 bozos. You’ve got the snake oil peddler vs. the bitter hack (you figure out which is which). Not good enough options, and the two main parties want it this way: an either or decision where we think voting third party is a waste, so we vote one of the two parties… whichever is the lesser of the two evils.
Loudelf,
The real choice is that over a frequent liar, and a clear story.
bPoint,
Which one’s the liar?
I think we can all agree that there will be differences in opinion at times even among those of us who frequent this blog. As long as Loudelf remains respectfull of our positions here we should be afraid to allow differing opinions to surface.
That being said, I think I understand the point Loudelf is making on one hand…there are bigger things to focus on with this election. And I would agree with that. I don’t agree that this is different than the Rev. Wright thing. Obama denounced Wright’s position which were/are divisive. Pastor Muthee may be a visiting minister but he’s been invited back on several occasions. Their church is fully aware of his positions, Sarah Palin is fully aware of his theology and both continue to embrace it. It’s relevant to visit this as it provides a great deal of insight into this woman’s mind-set and her world view. Obama’s religious theology does the same thing.
Someone mentioned why would someone visiting this site who does not share the same view visit? I would hope to try to understand and gain enough information to formulate their own view. It may still end up different than the majority of those here but I commend them for coming in to absorb what we have to offer here. Loudelf makes themselves pretty clear that they’re not supporting McCain/Palin nor are they supporting Obama but wish for a viable third party.
That being said, I consider my views well fleshed out because I read more than the available liberal dialogue. When I come to a conclusion about an issue it’s because I’ve done my own vetting of both liberal and conservative sources.
We should be able to welcome divergent views as long as they are respectful of ours. I havent seen Loudelf exhibiting any disrespect at this point.
Must be time for a walk, going to feed the birds…..notice I didn’t say troll
@Loudelf…we will have to agree to disagree. Palin at a later talk she gave at the same church…credited Pastor Muthee. Please…this is a woman who had huge political aspirations..yet she stood there straight faced while he performed perfectly intelligle mumbo jumbo.
He made it clear…that he did not believe in separation of church and state…and she still went front and centre and let him put his hands on her.
No excuses as far as I am concerned…and we have a right to be concerned.
The one hiding from telling the truth.
loudelf,
One last time, if you don’t like what you read here, by all means find another forum that agrees with your positions so you can continue your insults and rantings there.
* AKM – please block this troll
Just in case you need the quotes — I sat here this morning summarizing/transcribing what Pastor Muthee said:
“Transformation of our community…”
[Transforming] 7 areas in our society — (He only mentions 6???)
1. Spiritual aspect (saved, into heaven and delivered)
2. Economic area — Believers (bankers, businesmen/women) running economics
3. Politics — Politicians should be prayed for. (“if the believers had not done something in this country, your president would not be in this country.”) — [So we should feel grateful that we have Bush?]
4. Education — Educators need to be believers. 10 commandments would still be there if… “If we have God in our schools, we would not have kids being taught, you know, how to worship Buddha, how to worship Mohammad, we’ll not have in their curricucum witchcraft and sorcery.”
5. Media — “We need bully busting media. We need God taking over the media in our land…” “Living church right in Hollywood.”
6. Government — “We need believers there. We need men and women of integrity. You know, as the Secretaries (pl.) of State, we need them right there. People that are born again spirit field, people who know God, and people who are serious about God.”
————————
Then the pastor calls Pain to the front and he annoints her…
This issue is important not because Sarah Palin believes in a brand of religion that is a little weird to many Americans. It’s important because she believes she has the God-given right to use her poiltical power to force her religious views on our country and, indeed, our world.
It’s similar to the issue with her adultery. I don’t give a rat’s ass if she slept with the entire Alaska National Guard. I do care that she is unable to follow her own religious creed at the same time she believes she has God’s backing in forcing this religious creed on everyone else on the planet.
I also never cared what WJC did with his dick, UNTIL he put the best interests of his dick ahead of the best intersets of our country. It wasn’t right the way the rightwingers hounded him, abusing their political offices, over a personal matter. However, he was still being investigated for Paula Jones when he started another affair, this time with Lewinsky.
Our country had already been torn up over Nookiegate, and WJC’s presidency was not as successful as it could have been, simply because he had to spend so much time on defending himself over the actions of his dick. So for him to start another affair when he was still being investigated with Paula Jones, full well knowing that the WJC-dick-obsessed Republicans would be watching every move he and his dick made, was a terrible risk he put our country at, and he–and we–suffered for it.
With Sarah Palin’s affair, the issue is this: she has wrapped herself up in the flag of God and family in one of the biggest con jobs ever attempted on the American people. She has shamelessly pimped her family as one of her accomplishments which will make her a good VP. She also passes herself off as a Christian and has attempted to use her power to force her own extremist religious views on her constituents.
She is a fraud and a hypocrite. She has lied and misrepresented herself in an attempt to defraud the American voters. Her religious views are very extreme, and she feels she has God’s will to force her views on all Americans–perhaps all the world– yet she cannot follow the 10 Commandments herself.
She holds herself forth as a devoted wife and mother, yet she broke her sacred marriage vows when her husband was away on business, trying to support his family. She broker religious marraige vows because SHE WAS BORED.
Then we get to John McCain, who clearly selected her as his VP candidate in yet another impulsive, hare-brained move, like we have seen so frequently in his campaign. This was the most important decision in the most important political campaign of his life, and he didn’t even bother to vet her.
Yet these two frauds claim they are the best candidates for President and VP? Clearly this is not true, and this fraud they are attempting to perpetrate against the American people will put America at great risk because now, if ever before, America needs solid, dependable and responsible leadership.
So the reason why Sarah Palin’s choice of religious beliefs is important in some of the ways her adultery is germaine to the current political discussion for many of the same reasons that Bill Clinton’s affair with Lewinsky was important: both put our country at risk, WJC because he put the U.S. through another 3 years of domestic turmoil, and Palin because her adultery shows that her claims of the reasons she is capable of being VP and POTUS if McCain were to die are untrue.
It is not the fact that Sarah Palin could not maintain her marriage vows when faced with her husband’s absence at work, but her hypocrisy and attempts to defraud the American people, and John McCain’s inability to make a cogent important decision, that makes this adultery story important to the discussion of who should be the next POTUS.
So the next time anyone criticizes us for making Palin’s adultery, religion, or any other of her problem issues, a part of the discussion on whether she can be the next VP and possibly POTUS, we need to tell them this:
It’s not the adultery, extreme religious views, or screwed up family that are the point of the discussion: it’s the FRAUD she, and John McCain, are attempting to perpetrate against the American people.
@ sheesh
That was me that said I wouldn’t personally visit a blog where I was in the minority in shared views and shove my opinion down their throat. However I agree that everyone is certainly entitled to roam the net freely. And I am also stating for the record I personally visit many sites, blogs, news and fact sites, just to acquire info from all perspectives, that is the best way I’ve found to gather enough information to make a personal decision. An open mind works best in making an informed choice in my lil word, however I find little sense in hurling insulting barbs at a group of like-minded individuals because I don’t agree with them.
I have noted some serious barb hurling here…again just my take on things
Well-said Politcal Amazon! I remain a bit skeptical about the affair even though the NE has gained some investigative cred in the past year but we certainly have enough beyond that to base our concerns on.
Is anyone else aware that Sarah’s absence from town has kept her from meeting the a head of state with an interesting and innovative alternative energy program. Iceland is the world leader in geothermal energy. Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell will be going to meet the President because Sarah’s tied up campaigning – maybe he’ll brief later, after all energy is a major national security.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/mccain-campaign-running-a_n_129172.html
Touche – Political Amazon!
I would like to paraphrase Sarah for a second….”I bet he wishes he picked Mitt…”
Yes MJC, shut me down. Shout me down. An independent voice that cautions about being hypocritical has no place here right? I tell you to go back to school because you make an accusation based on your inability to comprehend my statement, and somehow I need to be blocked? Yes, block me because I’m not in blind love with your candidate, and point out that he spent YEARS with a guy who after seeing his rants, most Americans were literally scared, and that we can’t really take shots at Palin for her visiting minister’s rant because Obama’s judgment error was worse. Asking you to focus on real issues rather than this stretch is definitely a reason to call me a name, which by the way is an insult on the playground. Good call. Block me.
I wouldn’t think of blocking anyone from a blog for having a different opinion… but maybe that’s YOUR way.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26880901/
An actually MSM sighting about this story! Real news from MSNBC! I must be dreaming.
I stand corrected Strike Chipper Palin 🙂 You did clarify that you do read other blogs with divergent opinions but don’t shove your opinions on those readers. I don’t do that either simply because it’s not worth my energy to try and fight a windmill.
I wouldnt consider the initial post from Loudelf shoving though…simply a difference of opinion. The exchange has become a bit more heated and it’s time for all to back off and as Laurie said ‘we’ll have to agree to disagree’
@Loudelf,
I don’t support either McCain or Obama for president and am voting 3rd Party this year. However, this is an Alaskan blog about Alaskan politics and about Gov. Palin. She is in no way shape or form qualified to be vice-president and should never have been picked.
I welcome your voice but do not agree with McCain or Obama.
The AP story accompanying this video (yes, on the wire services now) has this quote:
“Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign, has said Palin attends different churches and does not consider herself Pentecostal.”
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gvCzZ0SoitdKvCm5L-qbcB6KSGUQD93DIUQ80
I know that I read stories/quotes from her before this all broke about her deep involvement in her church community. What is the truth here?
Trolls come and they also go…
Back to topic:
The Rev also mentioned ( somewhere before 4.00) that if “believers” had not done something, we would not have the president we have today (Bush).
I admit this tape scared me, but it also makes me question what the something was that believers did.
I don’t know about all of you, but I can remember feeling shocked by the 2004 election. Polls were off, projections were off, so many irregularities, etc. So, what did the believers do?
And, yes, AKM, the IRS would be very interested that a political agenda is being preached from the pulpit. They are very clear about that and that’s why people need to report such “transgressions.”
@MJC
I’d like to politely disagree. Loudelf is expressing an opinion but I don’t think he/she is being disrespectful or troll-ish about it. I support Obama and think Palin is a disaster, but what bothers me the most is the lack of respectful discourse in this (or any) election.
One reason I’ve been so supportive of Obama is his philosophy that we may disagree about some aspects of an issue but we should come together to find a solution in common ground (see his DNC acceptance speech). When we demonize those with whom we disagree, we tend to be more interested in scoring political points and ignore the positive aspects of their position to the detriment of the real solution to serious problems confronting this country. In doing that, we help polarize the issues, make ourselves seem unreasonable and are ultimately less convincing to those we would like to influence.
Muthee’s “fame,” such as it is, is based upon a video, “Transformations 1,” put out by George Otis Jr.’s “Sentinel Group.” This organization is very much into “spiritual mapping” (i.e., finding out where the nests of Wiccans and Buddhists are) and then praying them away. “Transformations 1” claims this sort of thing was done in four cities, including Muthee’s own Kiambu, Kenya, where he led the effort to rid the town of a “witch” named Mama Jane.
I’ve known about this video for years, because another town featured in it is Hemet, California. These guys make the claim that they’ve “transformed” the town by getting rid of “cultists” (read: non-Christians) and the crime rate (as of 1999, that is) had improved. Well, at the very same time Otis and the Sentinel Group were making the case that Hemet was a “transformed” city, the Church of Scientology–not a Christian organization, mind you–had (and has) a huge compound called “Gold Base” on the north edge of town. Granted, it’s outside the city limits, but at the time of the video, hundreds of Scientology staffers were being housed in apartment complexes within Hemet itself. In short, these guys claim to have gotten rid of the “cultists” out of Hemet but ignored the larges non-Christian group in town. Lie much, George Otis?
My point is this. If they’re going to lie about Hemet, California, which can be easily checked upon, what’s to stop them from puffing up Thomas Muthee and Kiambu, Kenya? I’m thinking that Muthee’s fame is based on a long-running scam to make out towns as being “transformed” when they’re just like the cities that you and I live in.
I love the fact that at one point he implies that Buddhism is “sorcery.” Non-violence is a real evil thing to teach to our children.
I live very close to the United Nations and the Waldorf Astoria Hotel.
Secret Service is all over the place right now, because John McCain is still in NYC.
He did not run to DC as he said he was going to do. If did, he is lost, because his motorcade is and ready and they are closing some streets right now to take him somewhere. McCain gave a speech this morning at the Clinton Global Initiative.
I am not positive, but events like the Global Initiative almost always offer an honorarium to each speaker.Maybe he’ll donate the money to the bailout
I do believe that the economic package is urgent, in fact very urgent.
How can McCain wait until after a speech to return Washington to work on the package? Instead he cancels Letterman to go on ABC with Katie Couric in order to slam Obama, and probably to give Katie a good talking to about the way she “mistreated” Sarah. The problem isn’t going to be less urgent on Friday than it is today. In fact if they went at it last night with the gusto they promise, the problem in fact might be less urgent than today. Instead he cancels Letterman to go on ABC with Katie Couric in order to slam Obama, and probably to give Katie a good talking to about the way she “mistreated” Sarah.
Good morning Lemonfair,
“I really do think the Couric interview and this video were reason enough for McCain to shout “Look over here! Look over here!” yesterday to distract us.”
That’s what I kept saying last night — but you are always much more succinct & directly to the point — thank you!
Having also grown up in a very similiar church I cant explain to you how much this woman scares me. There isnt a single belief or reaction that can’t be chalked up by them as being “God’s Will”. They literally view all that oppose them in any manner as “the enemy” whom he is preaching about in these videos. They aren’t saying step on the head of Satan, they are saying stomp on the head of anyone that doesnt believe exactly what they believe. Anyone that doesnt vote the way they vote and live the way they live. It is a very emotion based experience and thus it lends itself to great highs and lows. These churches are currently some of the fastest growing churches in the states and have a tremendous number of new members per year….they are likely also the leading denomination in church splits and failures. The truly scary part is that most pentecostal churches are so completely dependant on the “leader”. These churches dont succeed with calm, good, moral people in charge. They have success when over the top, charismatic extremists are in charge. Nearly all of them will end in violent church splits over some of the more extreme parts of their doctrine (I endured two as a teenager and was basically told by my family or the family of friends that we could no longer associate, basically due to differences on how things like evil spirits manifest themselves). It is the opposite of stable and comforting. They are also the most judgemental group of folks I’ve been associated with. Don’t speak in tounges enough….you probably arent living right. Dont raise your hands and dance….you obviously dont “know Jesus”. It truly is a church that worries less about its own “works” and what it is doing and the morality of its actual members than it does about shows of enthusiasm, dancing, screaming, shouting and calling the world evil. A calm, quiet, moral man who helps the community and gives tons of money to legit charity is not the one put on a pedastal at these places….it is the man who is more times than not living a life of sin, but screaming and yelling from the pulpit that the world is a horrible place and that his members are at war with the outsiders. I’ve seen too many pentecostal preachers, being treated like they were cult leaders with people handing on every word and buying at if it was the direct word of God, be completely consumed with scandal, affairs, tax evasion, payoffs, child molestation and drug use. I
The scene from Monty Pythons Holy Grail isnt far off……”If she weighs less than a duck…..A WITCH…BURN HER, BURN HER.
@C
“The only good thing about Thursday: supposedly McCain is suspending his campaign ads, giving us all a break from the farce, but he’ll probably go “flippity floppity” (re: sign watchers!! ) on this one too!!”
You are right — he flip-flopped. Already saw his ads during CBS’ Early Show at 7:30 a.m. & I sat their saying: “Liar, Liar!!!”
Brian,
I differ with Palin’s politics greatly, but differ with you on her qualifications. She is running as the underling, not the front-runner. She has actual legitimate executive authority, which when applying for a CEO position is critical. President is the CEO of the US, so I think she has enough experience there. The guy on the other ticket running for the actual office does not.
My problem with Palin is her bible-thumping, as with many of the Christian right. Additionally, her views on abortion and guns are very different from my own. I think that much like Obama, she is a bunch of hype with little substance, yet with issues that disturb me.
The thing I wonder about though, is why is her approval rating so great if she’s so bad?
Mayflower,
What market are you in I would like to know where in the country these ads are playing
@bpoint.
Simply amazing that McCain would actually cancel the Letterman appearance under the guise of needing to scurry to DC and then remain in NYC. Does he really think we’re all that stupid and gullible???
“I wouldnt consider the initial post from Loudelf shoving though…simply a difference of opinion. The exchange has become a bit more heated and it’s time for all to back off and as Laurie said ‘we’ll have to agree to disagree’”
I have to admit that I didn’t see any shoving from Loudelf either. From where I’m sitting, he/she sounded like someone fairly justifiably frustrated with both sides. It seemed more a plea to look closely at both sides in this situation…and sometimes the lines get fuzzy when trying to decide who is in the right.
Both Palin and Obama have had unfortunate ties to religious leaders. Obama faced harsh criticism and handled it by denouncing the views expressed and by leaving the church. Palin now faces harsh criticism and handled it by…???
I do have to say that the fact that Obama wasn’t standing on stage with Wright thus clearly endorsing his views speaks volumes. Palin not only standing on stage with the visiting pastor but having him pray over her and then repeatedly endorsing his power of prayer in subsequent speeches/appearances also speaks volumes.
…ducking head and running for cover…
ReaderInMD aka Krinkle Bearcat (06:11:43) :
I know that I read stories/quotes from her before this all broke about her deep involvement in her church community. What is the truth here?
I doubt very much that Maria Comella is even remotely interested in the truth; her job is to sugar coat and to make more mainstream Sarah’s excesses.
While Sarah’s spokesperson says that she doesn’t consider herself to be Pentecostal, Sarah herself spouts far too many bald-faced lies for her spokesperson to be taken seriously.
Pastor Thomas Muthee no doubt considers himself enlightened because he doesn’t advocate female genital mutilation for members of his churches; howver, there is no record of him ever having told his parishioners or fellow pastors to stop inflicting this barbarity upon their children and relatives.
JustPat (02:52:10) said :
Still concerned that McCombOver is in cahoots with Bubba and something’s going to go awry today. Wish I could remember where I read/heard this yesterday, but one report was saying that Bubba’s been sitting on this “plan” for a while waiting for the perfect time to create another Climate of Fear to sway the vote.
~~~~~~~~~
Bingo. Someone uttered 9/11 in relation to this economic crisis. Way to strike fear into the hearts of Americans and the world.
The way Bush spoke last night, warning that YOUR bank on YOUR street could go under, it was more politics of fear. I was almost expecting him to warn that intelligence suggests there are WMDs in the bank basements.
Spoke with my mother this morning, who, thankfully, finally sees McCain Palin for what they are. However, she thinks McCain’s return to DC was the right thing to do. Recognizing it was a ploy, she thought it was the right one.
What got her to say No, no, no, was when I told her that McCain wants the debate postponed to the date of the veep debate. “Oh, that’s a Tricky Dick thing to do.”
So here’s my concern: She’s left the dark side and still thought McCain did the right thing. Clearly, partisan Repubs will think so too. What say the Independents? I guess the polls will tell. (The polls have become the bane of my existence. Up and down and back again. It’s got me as nauseated as if I were on a rollercoaster, and I suppose I am.)
@Sheesh,
If you get a chance watch the Letteman video slamming McCain. A couple of minute in there is video of McCain sitting at Katies desk in the studio having his make-up put on. Dave covers/uncovers this brilliantly. The McCain campaign cannot shut down the news in New York, like they do in Alaska.
I notice the witch doctor didn’t offer any help with the economy. 😉
My husband and I were talking this morning…something’s up. I don’t know what, but he thinks McCain is terminally ill…maybe the melanoma is back. This was mentioned a few days ago on ABC-Sam Donaldson said his age is a serious issue, as he was forgetting talking points. George Will agreed that his behavior is frightening and erratic. If he does have a terminal illness, or even has something less serious like he had a stroke, and it is impairing his ability to govern, who is responsible to replace him or force him to step down? I’m not trying to be nasty or snarky…I am very concerned. If he is elected President and the RNC was aware of his health issues, then what happens? Sarah Palin is in no way ready to be President.
Creepy indeed, all this. The anti-establishment clause is one of my key issues, and I tremble to think of this nutbar in power. Hopefully this video will go viral and most of America, which, I hope, will find it just too weird, will wake up.
Everyone, if you belong to a church or a synagogue or a temple or any affiliation group where the leader or speaker of the group is supporting either candidate, send them this video and ask them to be informed before speaking. I think the POPE himself would want to have NO TIES with Palin and her crazy church!
So, save the election and get priests, rabbis, and everyone else up to par on what is really going on. The Republicans are using LIES and LIES WITHIN THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS BELIEFS to get votes. CALL THEM OUT ON IT!!
Palin’s witchcraft ties are no longer the little known secret that it was. My homepage is MSNBC and they are featuring it under the main photo. It will now become mainstream and many, many more people will be discussing it. McCain’s strategy of picking a VP nominee for the shock value will now blow up in his face.
G.
Church’s are forbidden from backing candidates from the pulpit. Doing so would render their tax free status void.
I too saw a McCain ad on one of the early shows this am (I am in Houston). I think it was the one Meredith Viera is on? I was surprsed since I thought the campaign was suspended!
Loved Letterman last night and I am not usually a fan – he had every right to be ticked, then I saw the you tube of Craig Ferguson (crazy passionate Scot like myself!) Glad they are all so outraged at the alleged Suspension!
Watched the Bush thingy and am so cynical – I was just waiting for the WMD to be mentioned !! Scaremongering – again!
bPoint, they are, but there’s a movement underway to challenge the law denying them the ability to get involved politically. I just made a post this morning linking to an LA. Times article about it.
Scotsgirl-your comment about being cynical reminded me of a comment on the Bill Maher Show by comedian D. L. Hugley, “These people have lied to us so much that I don’t believe a word they say.”
“I differ with Palin’s politics greatly, but differ with you on her qualifications. She is running as the underling, not the front-runner. She has actual legitimate executive authority, which when applying for a CEO position is critical.”
Loudelf, This is one the biggest arguments I have at home. I just can’t understand what her executive experience is and I’d love some help with this. It has been widely reported that under pressure of a possible recall, Palin had to hire someone to manage the town’s affairs in Wasilla. So, what did she do? She hasn’t been a governor for very long and, like all government positions, she has a team of people leading her through that job, too. I’d like someone to fill in the blank in my head – what professional skill set does she bring to the table?
Did you see the VP debates were “postponed” and the Prez debates moved into that slot? I guess Scarah has not studied hard enough!!!!
This McCain “suspension of campaign” is such OrangeAlert-scaremongering. Despicable!
loudelf (04:04:07) said :
While I would not go to this church, I think the umbrage at this video is ridiculous. This minister is a visitor, Obama’s was the resident. This minister prayed for Sarah, and he said “even in the political arena”, which is quite different from what we’ve heard in Chicago where they’ve openly endorsed Obama. He doesn’t say “God damn America” or anything like this. His references to witchraft, or other religions as such bother me as I don’t believe schools should teach people about religion at all, other to discuss origin, and some of the customs. This isn’t damning of her as a candidate per se, but I know I’ll never go to that church.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This frightens me MORE. Sarah is right there when he’s spewing and praying. He calls for religion in school. Ward off the evil of “other” religions. Christ is the only way. OK, I can respect that, but don’t dismiss my religion, the one that comforts and sustains me.
While you don’t believe schools should “teach about religion at all,” this man wants only one religion taught. Sarah is right there. And then he prays for her while she’s standing right there. She’s not only a witness to it, she participates in it.
Obama wasn’t in his church when Wright wrongly said G-d damn America. Wright was, however, his spiritual advisor. Maybe political expediency demanded that he distance himself from Wright. Ultimately, it was the right thing to do. Will Sarah reject what this visiting pastor said?
I saw a McCain ad last night during Letterman’s rant. It made me laugh so hard! Here is Letterman ranting…MCCAIN AD!!…Letterman still ranting about McCain.
bPoint,
“Mayflower,
What market are you in I would like to know where in the country these ads are playing”
Sorry — took me forever to refresh & scroll back through all the comments.
McCain’s ad ran on WLNS Channel 6 (Lansing, Michigan) around 7:30 a.m. Mad me so darned mad I almost called the Repub office! Perhaps I should???
habitual,
In the Twilight Zone that we are living in…does “postponed” really mean “cancelled”?
I also love how quickly the Repubs, the very same ones in the wake of 9/11 that said “go out and spend” and “we can’t let them beat us” and “if you let them scare you they win” are now referencing 9/11 in relation to this 2008 economic crisis.
Pure evil. Bush is pure evil.
I home someone that wears smarty pants is currently writing a manifesto on his escipades and just how stupid, damaging, and inept he’s been as leader of the free world.
OT – do you guys read much on Peak Oil? That will be in the manifesto, under the Iraq chapter.
Loud elf,
Let me offer my apologies for the “blocking” comment, and if I offended you in any way. I agree with your intitial post for the most part. I would not attend either candidates church either, and it should not disqualify her as a candidate. Personally, there are other issues that I find more concerning at this time, such as the 700 billion dollar bailout. That one has me on edge, so again, I apologize.
Is there a possibility with the current poll status (Obama just got his 1st positive poll #s in NC) that when this self-imposed moratorium (if there really is one) is over…
1.) Rick Davis will conveniently disappear as McCain’s top campaign advisor
2.) McCain may replace Palin as the VP choice perhaps with Romney or Ridge in a desparate hope to reel in the lightly blue Michigan or PA in exchange for losing some evangelical and female support. I think that Palin has now become tha “albatross” that was refered to earlier.
Have to agree that loudelf might be more comfortable finding himself another forum. I’ve already agreed to disagree with him on another thread and would not bother replying to his posts in the future! While it’s certainly encouraging that he does not like Palin, as I told him on the other thread, this blog is comprised of like-minded people. If someone wants a free-for-all go to the CNN comments sections or the hannity site or rush limbaugh’s site or some other nonsense. That’s not what we’re here for.
Lol…let’s face is Libbs – it certainly does.
Obama live on CNN if anyone wants to watch
edition.cnn.com/video/live/cnnlive_1.asx
@IndieJ (06:19:11) :
Thank you for your post. For people who are always bashing the bible they don’t seem to take much notice of it in the way they live their lives.
Exhibit I – Sarah Palin
HonestPoet
Thanks for the heads up. I do hope that nothing changes regarding church and politics.
I would hate to have listen to any campaign stump from the pulpit. My church is a good place for me to consider what I might be doing wrong and what I could be doing better. It is not a good place for me to listen to who is doing wrong and who is doing better. A church should be a spiritual hospital.
@Loud elf,
Voting for McCain is actually voting for Palin to be president very soon. Her views are extreme on all issues and President Palin will have no problem with a World War because it’s God’s Will. The End Times and The Rapture are real to her and many others and they will do anything to help that to come to pass.
Her approval rating is high for several reasons.
1. Evangelicals are 23% of the population.
2. Many women see her as one of them, a working mother.
3. She’s a celebrity and a pretty face with a great back story.
4. She’s pro-life, pro-gun, pro-drilling and that’s all many voters need to hear.
Remember everyone, I do not support Obama either.
@bpoint
Thanks for that link to the Letterman vid….hilarious!!! Now I can go to work 🙂
SMR (06:48:52) :
Have to agree that loudelf might be more comfortable finding himself another forum. I’ve already agreed to disagree with him on another thread and would not bother replying to his posts in the future! While it’s certainly encouraging that he does not like Palin, as I told him on the other thread, this blog is comprised of like-minded people. If someone wants a free-for-all go to the CNN comments sections or the hannity site or rush limbaugh’s site or some other nonsense. That’s not what we’re here for.
I’m with you, SMR
P.S.
Stop the bailout everyone!
There is a concerted effort this weekend by Pastors to endorse a Candidate (McCain) in defiance of IRS rules, which presently loses the Churches exempt status. They want this case to go to the SCOTUS, which depending on the future makeup, may allow them to keep their exemption even while endorsing a specific Candidate. These are grim times for those of us who hold the Separation of Church and State important.
I’m a long time reader but new at posting here.
This church/state/transform/run out people with differing points of view scares the hell out of me.
I live in California, and am not seeing much coverage on this except on MSNBC, Huffington Post and occasionally a brief mention on CNN. Even Move-On.org is quiet on the topic.
I would think this might be important news in some of the swing states – Florida comes to mind with it’s large Jewish population. Is anyone seeing newspaper coverage in their areas
Maybe a write-in campaign is in order…
Any thoughts?
MJC, I’m sure being “on the edge” is an understatement…I’m right there with you!
SMR,
“this blog is comprised of like-minded people”
Don’t be so sure…there are lots of independents here. You aren’t truly saying that only people who believe exactly what you do are not welcome here, are ya? (just to throw a Palinism in there)
political amazon: well said
loudelf: Here is the difference. Yes, Jeremiah Wright made some polarizing, incidienary remarks to his black congretation.
Here is one of the statements:
I’m a white, middle-class, middle-aged white woman. I too at times feel like saying “God damn America!” I felt like saying it when they elected a man who has lied to get this country into a obscene war, when they are willing to pull ONE TRILLION dollars out their collection asses to fund this war, and now we are supposed to pull another trillion out to wipe up the crap from this financial disaster that was brought about by politicians like McCain to remove any safeguard or accountability from greedy, power corporate neocons who obviously don’t mind ‘damning American themselves.
I’m not a black person but a I am watching the McCain campaign release four ads in the last couple days all trying to link Obama with ‘questionable’ black men in attempt to discredit him I feel a cold anger rising inside me. If you think racism isn’t alive and breathing in this American than perhaps you’ve been sniffing too much elf-dust. A recent survey showed the 1 in 3 democrats harbor prejudice against blacks. McCain is trying to trade in on this prejudice and inject racism into this campaign. I say ‘God Damn McCain!’
So while I think Jeremiah Wrights remark were ill-advised in a political climate and they certainly caused Obama some serious embarrassment as we watched a few seconds of Rev. Wright played adnauseum over and over and over by the MSM media, I have an inkling where that black anger may come from. And NOTE there is NO VIDEO ANYWHERE of Barack Obama being present for any of these remarks.
But here is what creeps me out. Watching a woman who is positioning herself to possibly be the President of this United States being PRAYED OVER to be protected by witchcraft. If we had a video of Obama or Biden like that neither one of them would be in this campaign anymore. Does anyone doubt that?
Aaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!
Okay, then, Libbs – this blog used to be comprised of like-minded people.
For the record, I don’t dislike her because she’s a religious lunatic – I dislike her because she’s an idiot!
P.P.S.
We should all agree to comment how we wish, respectfully and intelligently. Unlike Democrats and Republicans. In other words, Loudelf has as much right to speak as you do. Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin are the worst possible tickets for the real problems facing the world.
We The People are the true leaders in this country and it’s time we took it back from Wall Street, the MSM and Washington D.C.
[…] “We know Pastor Thomas Muthee was back in Wasilla this past weekend … […]
whoops…should have edited that to…
You aren’t saying that only people who believe exactly as you do are welcome here?
I’m hoping that respectful dialogue is always welcome at Mudflats.
Question: Has a vice presidential candidate ever been replaced this late in the election (or at all)? I really don’t think the former McCain could admit to making a mistake of this magnitude, and I don’t think the current McCain has the ability to read and use the restroom at the same time. Sarah is going to be the VP candidate up until the bitter end. That’s why all of this is so scary…because I honestly do not believe McCain would be the President for very long. He will either need medical intervention that make him unable to lead or he will die within the first year. I really, really do believe this. So unless Obama can really do this, we better get used to the idea of President Palin…
“Our dog looks like a wolf. Would she shoot it?”-my son.
Well said PoliticalAmazon!
AKA ‘AmyOMerkley’
Libbs,
Thanks Libbs. I am actually a registered Republican, who will be supporting Obama this go around. Things are really getting heated up with the elections, so it’s nice that we have this forum to discuss our differing opinions and be able to support one another through all the madness.
Brian, you are throwing your vote away if you aren’t voting for Obama or McCain. I understand your frustration, but that’s the way it is. Just like my vote for Obama is meaningless, because my state is red as a radish.
Libbs (07:01:34) :
Respectful dialogue is always welcome as far as I’m concerned.
We can all discuss to try and understand someone elses viewpoint, without having to agree with it 😉
Who would he replace her with? Lieberman?
If I have to listen to Lieb’s nasal whine and heavy breathing for 4 years, I will kill myself. Palin’s Fargo accent is one thing, at least it brings Frances MCDormand images to mind. Liebs – that all together different.
Aussie Puck, you rock!
Comment to Loudelf…
Speaking as someone who initially did not come to this board as an Obama supporter, I believe Obama’s minister is far LESS troubling than Palin’s.
First, let’s go with the premise that BOTH Palin and Obama actually support what “their” minister said. You can’t dismiss Palin’s association with the witch hunter, for there is too much info to show she did agree with him, and later gushed over his support.
Ok, that being said…why does Obama’s minister bother me less?
Because Palin’s minister’s wacky beliefs are based on superstition that belongs in the dark ages. Our country does not need to revisit Salem.
Obama’s minister’s anger is based on legitimate grievances. As a white person, whose ancestors DID own slaves (and not that many generations ago), I can definitely understand the anger and bitterness, and appreciate the trials unique to African Americans.
I do believe Obama has a unique perspective for a Black American. Not only is he bi-racial, but he is a first generation African American. He did not have extended family (such as black aunts, uncles, grandparents) that were oppressed in this country, and passed down to him the residue and bitterness of that struggle.
I can understand that he would feel a need to reach out to a Black Church that might embody the struggles of Black America, to give him their perspective.
Here is my view of the debate @ loudelf and MJC…
It’s OK MJC to hear dissenting views and to have healthy debate about it. It sharpens my dialogue with the Republicans I am around all day long.
@Loudelf, my only true problems with Rev Wright were the things he did after his name was muddied and scraped across the road. Heres why;
I listened to many of his sermons, not just the sound bites. I agreed with 95% of the things he said in his sermons that I viewed. Talking about self-responsibility, self respect, getting his congregation to take AIDS tests and taking his first (because of the crisis in the community with young women of color and increasing numbers among the elderly) and promoting service to the community from the pulpit… I can admit that there have been times within these past years I have felt in my heart, Damn America… Why are they trying to block civil rights and Women’s Rights (still do), we voted that war mongerer Bush in twice and we are getting what we asked for, when will enough be enough for us.
Just as many older white people have a different look at Obama, older Black people remember the years of having that foot on their neck and your past will shape your person. One thing I never heard from Rev Wright was hate, he did speak of his views of the problems of the past and reconciliation in the future. It seems to me that some white people feel that Blacks should just forget the mistakes of the past. We can’t… Just as we can’t forget the mistakes of the last 8 years. We must remember lest we repeat them.
As a woman of color I have dealt with discrimination from many sides and still deal with it on a weekly basis. I have served this country with distinction in the Armed Services and that has been the one thing that has given me acceptance by Corporate America, my education, qualifications or professional experience were never quite enough, they liked having a commando among their midst and have tried to use me as an attack dog the same way they are using Sarah Palin.
Enough already… Rev Wright is only an issue because he was a Black man discussing the issues of Black America. I’ve heard worse from those who have done so little compared to him who are White. He is arrogant, egostical and boisterous but a servant to his community, he has done far more good then he is given credit for. Being that you don’t live inhis community I suspect that you wouldn’t get it.
Be truly objective if you can.
I have challenged people to do what many of us have done here. Look at the whole picture the GOOd as well as the BAD. Many can agree that there are two sides to every story and agree to disagree.
The title of this blog: Tip-toeing through the muck of Alaskan politics.
Since the pick of sarah palin by mccain (or his underlings or rove or whomever actually made the pick) the two have become intertwined. Unfortunate for the rest of America that that is the case, and for Alaska that we have been burdened by a Gov that does not walk the talk. This particular thread, as are many others right now, explores reasons why she is a threat to the US as VP. Separation of church & state is critical, and she is way over the line in my opinion. And this country shows some dangerous signs of straying over the line as well. I don’t think that the majority of the US is in favor of that, so why do we all have to be so scared? Because of the people in power who also hold those radical evangelical views and the noise from their constituents who support those views. We who believe that separation of church & state is critical must be louder!
As I also said in my previous discussion with loudelf, people here often disagree, but it is not done in a mean-spirited fashion. That is not what this forum is about.
This blog does not represent itself as anything other than what the title implies.
I agree AUssiePuck….
I think a big part of Palin’s current AK approval rating is due to the ‘Home Team’ phenom. I mean, here you have at state that is literally and figuratively cut off from the lower 48 and Washington that has had one of ‘their own’ tapped for VP. That’s HUGE and should not be discounted. Thus my overwhelming respect for people speaking out. Thus the secured ‘blue’ condition of Illinois (usually a battleground area) by teh nomination of Obama.
I mean, I’m from MI (born adn raised) living in MA and it stings every time I see the Chevy Chase skits making fun of Ford. And let’s face it, he was a less than stellar Pres. Lol……:)
@Enough Already:
Wow! You are an eloquent speaker & have a wonderful perspective to share! Thanks for the insights.
OFF TOPIC
Apologies if this has already been posted-
The infamous multi-vote PBS poll has been changed. Go here to take the new one vote poll. http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html
And read about it here:
The Sarah Palin Poll – New and Improved – One User, One Vote.
http://www.pbs.org/now/palin-poll.html
…in reference to the now famous “Palin poll” that appeared on the NOW on PBS homepage on September 5. It’s no longer on the homepage; in fact, it’s no longer a page that the online user can navigate to using menus, but hundreds of thousands of unique visitors are still accessing the poll and voting. …
…PBS headquarters made the decision on September 22, to implement a cookie registration system on the Palin poll. That system is now part of the poll’s inner code, and as of September 23, a user can only vote once per computer. PBS acted because the entire pbs.org site had been experiencing system overload due to massive accessing of the poll…At the moment the single-voter system was implemented, it was close to a tie: 50% say Sarah Palin is qualified to serve as Vice President, and 48% say no. Those results, in my view, are actually a measure of the mobilization and manipulation efforts by partisans on both sides. Now it will be all about mobilization, and less about manipulation. Blogs on the left and right are circulating viral emails with the exact address of the poll.
…Some users have raised questions about our decision to collect opinion about Sarah Palin’s qualifications in a poll. For a more complete discussion, take a moment to read the September 19 column of Michael Getler, the PBS Ombudsman.
…The Palin poll is no longer in our home page rotation. We’ve moved on to other polls; each week you’ll find one in the bottom right corner of our home page. The current poll asks, “Who do you trust more to fix the nation’s economic mess—Barack Obama or John McCain?” It has already attracted a lot of interest.
…And let’s keep in mind the purpose of these weekly polls. They invite people who might not ordinarily come to our site to participate, and they encourage people to explore the deep journalism that is offered throughout NOW’s nearly 10,000 web pages and 1,000 video streams. They don’t provide the nuanced interpretation of our investigative journalism and deep content, but do provide a gateway to that content. An example: on Friday, September 19, we aired a one-hour special about women and politics on our broadcast. In the days since the air date, that online video has become the most viewed video on the PBS Election Site. For online users who are deeply interested in the issues raised during this election, the polls are only a starting point. There’s a lot more to explore, to read, and to view.
I welcome your thoughts and comments about the Palin poll. Please use this specific Feedback Forum to share your opinions.
Here is a more edited, scarier version of this video.
Tucker Bounds was just on MSNBC vomiting the line that if Obama had participated in the town hall meetings McCain wanted, the debate wouldn’t be an issue.
Tucker, the “rules” McCain wanted were untenable. A town hall meeting is a meeting people from the community are free to attend. McCain wanted invitation only. Obama wanted first come, first served.
AND, not everyone can tune in to every town hall meeting. Debates are necessary. They are an opportunity for the nation to see the candidates answering the same questions. At the same time. In the same room. A basis for comparison.
What gets me most is that whenever McCain or his surrogates are faced with a question they don’t want to answer, they pull out the town hall meeting argument. It’s tiresome. It’s become noise. Stop already.
While I would be SHOCKED if McCain replaced Palin at this juncture, it isn’t beyond this campaign. This thing has been flat out insane for a month or so now. I can picture McCain pulling Mitt onto the ticket and pushing it as “with the struggling economy it was in the best interest of the nation(country first) that I took the incredible political risk in order to make this move and replace a bright, young political mind with a more experienced, economically gifted running mate.”
His campaign would spin it as “typical John McCain maverick” and spend the next 39 days talking about nothing but the ecomony and the drastic moves they’ve taken to address the crisis. I have to be honest as an independant….Mitt would have made my decision a very difficult one because I actually liked him in his race to win the nomination. I’ve since been turned off by his typical backpedaling on the things he was hammering McCain on in the primary and the change would only fuel the doubt I have about McCain’s stability and decision making. He is not the same person he was in 2000….take that from a guy that volunteered to work on his campaign while finishing my studies and was willing to go full time had he won the nomination in 2000. This guy is nowhere close to the guy I was inspired by only 8 years ago.
Hi Enough Already,
Thank you for your post. Very well said.
I just want to clarify one thing, I have no problem with dissenting views. What SMR just stated is exactly what was on my mind:
“people here often disagree, but it is not done in a
mean-spirited fashion. That is not what this forum is about.”
@Habitual
McCain cannot dump Palin. It will not serve his campaign well holding the sound judgement line. If McCain/Palin can keep the Troopergate facts stifled until after the election, and she has served her purpose of holding the republican base together and they win, God forbid. Then they will let the snakes out of the Troopergate bag.
Sarah Palin will be forced to step down as VP. The news of her replacement will muffle the Troopergate story and she will fade away quickly. The headline grabbing news of a VP stepping down will be big a big story, until it becomes the story of another politician being investigated for corruption, and her replacement is chosen, then the new VP becomes the story
one computer – one vote
er, … well, probably not!!!
a simple delete of my cookies (via tools menu off Internet explorer) and
voila,
multiple votes from one computer
As an Alaskan I have to take issue with the recycling of the 80% approval rating here in Alaska! If I remember correctly, that number first came from the lips of mcliar when justifying his pick. So, taking that into consideration, you can imagine how credible the number really is (or should I say isn’t).
This state is not comprised of 80% repubs & 20% dems! My view on how she was elected for gov (and this view is shared by several fellow voters): the dems were apathetic. She ran on a regularly-ridiculed platform of “mayor & CEO of Wasilla.” That was not taken seriously by the local dems, as it seemed like a joke, just like you are all feeling now when seeing her on the national stage — “is this a joke?” Further, at that time there was a much more firmly entrenched “I only vote repub” feeling. I know because I used to be a registered repub, voted for Bush the 1st time and know lots & lots & lots of repubs. That has changed a lot. The nomination of palin has polarized the group. She made a lot of enemies in this state within the repub ranks and not many friends (if any). For example, take a family that I know, BIG time repubs — they will not vote for a ticket that includes sarah, and have had a falling out with friends of 30+ years because much as those friends loathe (and I mean LOATHE) palin, they refuse to consider voting anything other than the repub ticket. That scenario is being played out all over Alaska. So, back when sarah was elected gov, the dems laughed at her platform and scoffed at the idea that she would get elected over Tony Knowles (very well thought of), so they did not get out and vote! Yet she still won by only about 20,000 votes. Dems have been fairly apathetic voters here in Alaska. I can only hope that that changes with this election. I am trying very hard to get people to understand that even though this state has always been red come election day that every single vote counts! Every single voter has to get out & vote, that is the only way that we can telegraph our desire for change!
Note: Alaska has its own little bible belt areas (Wasilla & Kenai & Fairbanks), and if you phone those areas to get poll numbers you may just get 65% these days. But then again maybe not…
From CBSNews front page:
(CBS) After Sen. John McCain announced he would suspend his campaign in order to focus on his congressional work ironing out the $700 billion bailout package – and proposed delaying the first presidential debate – he came to the CBS News broadcast center to explain the politics of the situation to CBS News Anchor Katie Couric.
Then he spent the night in NYC, and woke up this morning to attend Bill Clintons Global Initiative Forum.
Come on John, where is the truth?
Palin won’t reveal her finances until after debate
Sarah Palin requested and received an extension of the deadline for revealing her personal finances, until the day after her only debate with Democrat Joe Biden.
The Republican vice presidential candidate received a four-day extension Thursday from the Federal Election Commission.
The federal financial disclosure report was initially due next Monday. Now, Palin has until Oct. 3, the day after her debate in St. Louis with Biden, the Democratic vice presidential nominee.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/25/politics/p072023D08.DTL
@bPoint:
Hey! You stole my conspiracy theory! That’s exactly what I told my husband! They’ll throw her to the wolves of Troopergate once she’s served her purpose. But perhaps she already knows that, has known it from the beginning, maybe was promised post as Ambassador of Georgia, and so has gone along with it. Because “you know, you have got to be wired for the mission and you can’t blink and blah blah blah.” Or maybe Todd will get a big huge paying lobbying job or something like that.
SMR
Oh how the Big Oil guys are going to have their way with her when she returns to Juneau…It is too bad that all Alaskans will feel the pain. When her term as Governor is over, the Big Oil Boys will still be in business, and supporting her opponents campaign.
This was just defended on The View by Sherri and Elizabeth. That smirk ! Is there like some conservative women charm school where they teach smug smirk 101?
Off topic–Palin financial data to become available AFTER the VEEP debate
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-gets-extra-time-for_n_129215.html
Can’t wait to see ’em!
It’s definitely time for churches to lose their tax exempt status. This is absolutely ridiculous. Heaven help the politician that has the balls to bring it up though. Jesus wept.
@bPoint:
I know, I know. I’ve said it here before & I’ll say it again. She has screwed Alaska with her TransCanada pipeline deal, because she was on some b.s. power-trippy screw the oil companies trip, and everyone who thought she was their saviour because of it will be crying once it all shakes out. But she will be long gone by then. TransCanada has so many legal problems that it will be a zillion years before the thing gets built and the big oil companies will have long since come up with their own Plan B. They have already, together, formed their own subsidiary (not sure what you’d call that group exactly) working toward building the Denali pipeline, and yes, that is NOT the one that palin is cheering herself on for pushing through. Don’t know who’s going to ship gas down that one. Or how we’re going to pay TransCanada up to FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS if the pipeline that she promised they could build somehow doesn’t get built…
Then there are the oil taxes… She raised them, totally ticked off the big oil companies and drove out the small independents. Can you say LOST JOBS IN ALASKA? Whoopee, everyone got a bigger dividend, but jobs were lost!!!!!!! Anyway, those taxes are out of here soon! It will happen as soon as she is replaced, or sooner if she comes back to Alaska on Nov 5th with all credibility GONE.
@habitual (07:14:49) :
I agree AUssiePuck….
I think a big part of Palin’s current AK approval rating is due to the ‘Home Team’ phenom. I mean, here you have at state that is literally and figuratively cut off from the lower 48 and Washington that has had one of ‘their own’ tapped for VP. That’s HUGE and should not be discounted. Thus my overwhelming respect for people speaking out. Thus the secured ‘blue’ condition of Illinois (usually a battleground area) by teh nomination of Obama.
I mean, I’m from MI (born adn raised) living in MA and it stings every time I see the Chevy Chase skits making fun of Ford. And let’s face it, he was a less than stellar Pres. Lol……:)
I’m sure all of Alaska views it more as a small country invading a large one. 😉
And speaking of making fun of – can you say “let’s park the car in Harvard Yard”?
I just watched Sarah’s continued interview with Katie. Tonights edition is on foreign policy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-on-bin-laden-such-a_n_129213.html
She reminds me of my over-stuffed sock drawer….I know where all my socks are, I can tell you all the colors and I can guess how many pairs I have. But if you turn off the lights, I probably could not put a matching pair together, and if you handed me a matching pair I could not tell you with certainty what color they are or if the match.
I don’t know how many socks are missing their mates, but…I can get back to you on that.
After Palin is through shaming Alaska and goes home with her tail between her pitbull legs I doubt she’ll be re-elected govenor. I think Alaskans that were caught up in her saga have had an awakening. She’s aired her dirty laundry world-wide and dragged her Troopergate problems into the national limelight. She’ll be lucky if she can get employed at a local TV station doing high school hockey highlights…
Wow! That was fast. http://www.msnbc.com dropped all reference to Palin’s witchcraft minister ties ties. It was only on the site for about ten minutes. I wonder who got to them.
Maybe she’ll never reveal her taxes because she’ll be jettisoned before the debates.
Those taxes are going to blow the “breath of fresh air” and “real person” thing out of the water!!!! How many of the working mothers who think they can relate to her are going to think that after they see how much money they bring in???? Their gross has to be over $300,000.00.
Bring on the debates & taxes!
Palin says: “a surge in Afghanistan also will lead us to victory” to Couric.
ALSO!!!
Regi,
Go easy on the churches…The amount of good they do in their communities far far outweighs the tax benefits gained. Very few institutions are able to gather community service and services they way our churches do.
Ask anyone in a yoga studio the last time they hosted soup kitchen for the hungry. Even if they did, I bet they had to ask a church for a place to hold it. A church will let the homeless sleep on their steps at night, and a great many even provide beds. Most business will not do that, and you can be certain that the Motor Vehicle agency or other government agencies will not either.
If you questions these facts, go to your office today and ask your employer if you can make a bed or two available after hours at your place of work for the homeless for even one night a week.
I mention this with great respect to you and to the church
Sorry for the rant, MJC, SMR loudelf and all I read your posts that came while I was muti-tasking ( Yes, McCain should try it ) beteween writing and work, but I just had to give that speech to the Jerk in accounting who whispers NObama! to me every other day and who I found out actually reads the Palin Perspective email that I send to all of my republican coworkers.
I was told that if Obama wins then maybe I should go work for him and Rev Wright and I WENT OFF!
Everyone has been apologizing for him for the past week but they are secretly telling me that they will vote for Obama and thanks for giving them the SCOOP, INFO and 411 on the real Sarah Palin. I am in Manhattan and surrounded with folks from many towns represented here and they have bought their ideology to the Big Apple with them. See that’s why we need gun control, I could be in jail at least three times a week.
It took 2 weeks to get this turn around. I was persistent asnd I listened quietly to their opinions and gave verifiable facts that have swayed and dismayed them.
I got my inspiration from you mudpuppies here. Doug and all here who spill their hearts on the page of this blog are a true gift to me in these troubled times. Thank You All!
WOW! I cannot even do my work and keep up with the responses. There are too many from my first post…..will have to read when I get home tonight.
bPoint
It is well known that churches are doing it – maybe slighly, but still doing it. I wish people would videotape if churches or anyone who would lose their tax exempt or other status preach who to vote about and get them to lose their status!
LOTS MORE LATER! And thank you all for making me think SOME people in America are smart! I still need a Canadian or someone outside of the USA to marry…. 🙂 🙂
@ Bobg (07:51:10) :
Wow! That was fast. http://www.msnbc.com dropped all reference to Palin’s witchcraft minister ties ties. It was only on the site for about ten minutes. I wonder who got to them.
You are right Bobg, it’s gone. What is that about? Maybe Naomi Wolf is correct. Reposted the link to her article below:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/the-battle-plan-ii-sarah_b_128393.html
It’s still on MSNBC ….. just won’t let me post the link here lol
@Dazzler,
Sarah Palin hasn’t aired her dirty laundry. She has left her dirty smelly laundry in her locker in Alaska and she is the only one with a combination. Someone needs to get the bold cutters so things can really air out.
The link is … msnbc.msn.com/id/26880901/
And speaking of making fun of – can you say “let’s park the car in Harvard Yard”?
Lol…. Let’s park the car in Harvard Yard.
I’m born and raised in Michigan – I don’t have the accent! 😉
Natives of the north or south shore would say: Let’s Paak the caah in Haavaad Yaad.
Thanks JJB for the link.
I still think there is truth in the Naomi article though 🙂
@Enough Already – great posts and keep the faith. Obama will win!
bPoint (07:59:03) :
Regi,
Go easy on the churches…The amount of good they do in their communities far far outweighs the tax benefits gained. Very few institutions are able to gather community service and services they way our churches do.
Ask anyone in a yoga studio the last time they hosted soup kitchen for the hungry. Even if they did, I bet they had to ask a church for a place to hold it. A church will let the homeless sleep on their steps at night, and a great many even provide beds. Most business will not do that, and you can be certain that the Motor Vehicle agency or other government agencies will not either.
If you questions these facts, go to your office today and ask your employer if you can make a bed or two available after hours at your place of work for the homeless for even one night a week.
I mention this with great respect to you and to the church
I completely agree some churches provide charitable services. They also have extreme influence in the political arena. Time for some shakeups in the religious community.
I like the new Obama ad
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/astrongereconomy_ad/
I would like to weigh in with a comment today. I agree with the previous posters who have tried to contextualize Rev. Wright’s church (esp. Enough Already at 7:09:56, JT and OCliberal). I listed to Rev. Wright on Bill Moyers, and also some of his sermons where I could find them.
As a Christian, I donated to that church, after knowing what they went through with the whole unfair media coverage, and seeing how many great programs they have going, and understanding their history. And yes, this was after Obama had severed his links to Rev. Wright (and Wright was already retired from the church).
I ask you this: why is it that a predominantly “white” church is not being scrutinized by the media, and yet the predominantly “black” church was?
Geraldine (05:25:30) :
Palin suspending her campaign is just a nasty liberal rumor.
She can’t do that! The country dearly needs her experience to resolve the financial crisis. She and John will go to Washington and fire everyone.
There is no crisis that could not be solved with a little bombing. Treat an ailment with a bigger one.
I grew up in a household with a Haida (Canadian First Nations) grandmother who used to hide under the bed when the local minister, a very nice and kind man, would come over visit. She was truly frightened of Christians because of her experience with a boarding school she was force to attend as a child.
I also have a cousin from the other side of my family who is a fundamentalist preacher, in my opinion a very twisted one. He once told one of my neighbors who was laying in a hospital bed after being severly beaten by her husband that it was all her fault and she obviously not a good enough christian. Her husband at the time was a major meth user.
This tends to heavily color my opinions on this subject. Disclaimer made nothing frightens me more than the idea that the fundamentalists will one day get control of this country. It is especially important that it not happen now when we have an outgoing president who has made some major power grabs and thrown the balance of power off kilter.
Reverand Wright I can understand he grew up in a time when things were different, the goverment did things like infect black men with syphilis then not treat it so they could see what would happen ( this is documented by federal government records) there was no justice in this country if you were black when he was growing up. Like my grandmother his experience has colored his life and his views. I can understand that and it’s okay because this is the USA where we are allowed to express our opinions even if they are not popular.
What I can’t handle is those who think we should all have to believe and think like they do or else, or else what? Given the vast amounts of time I have spent studying history I am familiar with what tends to happen when one religion takes over a government large or small. We can look at enemies the taliban a fundamentalist sect of a different religion to see the modern possibilities of theocracy, somehow knowing people like my cousin Chucky I don’t think the christian form would be all that different if given the chance.
Univ. of Mississippi is stating RIGHT NOW that the debate goes on tomorrow as scheduled.
the post re witchcraft / muthee is still up
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26878848
@Regi,
You may be right. I live in NYC. I have virtually never seen political influence neither subtle nor extreme in the churches I have attended over the years. If it were I would say something or write a note to the church. Issues may be talked about in line with Biblical teaching regardless of the election cycle. In my case one issue will not define my vote, but it may still have some weight in my decisions. Bringing public awareness to the wrongness of pulpit politicking and providing a whistle to blow might be a better first step.
@loudelf
“My problem with Palin is her bible-thumping, as with many of the Christian right. Additionally, her views on abortion and guns are very different from my own. I think that much like Obama, she is a bunch of hype with little substance, yet with issues that disturb me.” (emphasis mine)
Your ability to equate Obama’s calm and intelligent analysis of many pressing issues (go watch the AARP address videos for an example) and Palin’s vacuous nonsense disturbs me. Obama = hype/celebrity is just a Republican meme/talking point. It’s not actually borne out by reality.
In a new poll, Alaskans pick Biden over Palin: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080925/NEWS02/809250356/1007
testing
If I were a Republican, I’d be working overtime to squash this witch hunter story. So I’m not surprised to see push-back both overt and subtle.
Obama with a great counter move to McCains debate shenanigans
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/obama-will-make-debate-a_n_129250.html
Remember Andrea Yates, and the other lady from Tyler TX?
bPoint (08:17:19) :
@Regi,
You may be right. I live in NYC. I have virtually never seen political influence neither subtle nor extreme in the churches I have attended over the years. If it were I would say something or write a note to the church. Issues may be talked about in line with Biblical teaching regardless of the election cycle. In my case one issue will not define my vote, but it may still have some weight in my decisions. Bringing public awareness to the wrongness of pulpit politicking and providing a whistle to blow might be a better first step.
Churches are well within their rights to discuss issues. What they may not do is promote a politician to the extent they have Bush, and now McCain. Really read up on what’s going on in these mega churches. It’s terrifying and they’d like nothing more than the country to be beholden to them for their judicial/legislative and obviously now, executive influences. I’m admittedly freaked enough to be more than willing to take away all tax exemption and crush these fundamentalists.
They were extreme religious believers/followers…
with regard to churches and political messages, I seem to remember reading that there is now a movement to overturn this…can anyone research?
Cassie — I’m going out tonight to buy sign supplies. So excited!!! Look for your sign!
JP. You are so good.
EnoughAlready — Can we get you to run for Pres or VP? Keep on fighting the good fight!
@habitual (08:03:28) :
And speaking of making fun of – can you say “let’s park the car in Harvard Yard”?
Lol…. Let’s park the car in Harvard Yard.
I’m born and raised in Michigan – I don’t have the accent!
Natives of the north or south shore would say: Let’s Paak the caah in Haavaad Yaad.
I know you don’t have the accent – but you just poked fun at JFK, do you know that? 😉
@Cassie Jeep Pike Palin (Wish I were Trout) (08:15:26) :
Univ. of Mississippi is stating RIGHT NOW that the debate goes on tomorrow as scheduled.
Cassie, you would not believe how affronted was Ole Miss yesterday at such a rejection of their hospitality as offered by McCadaver. Some were even threatening to vote Obama in retaliation. 😉
Enough Already,
Another great Post!
You crack me up with this one. 🙂
” See that’s why we need gun control, I could be in jail at least three times a week.”
** Don’t worry, we Muddpuppies will take up a collection for you bail money!
Lol….
JFK (and Teddy) have a different accent….it’s the New Hampshire/Maine/Boston Brahmin accent. Just talk with your teeth clenched, and you have it.
I think JFK had a good sense of humor, no? 😉
SMR (08:26:41) :
Thanks to you! I’ll try to get a little poster paint on my thumb, vicariously!
loudelf (04:40:31) :
Deb,
This is a partisan thing. Democrats, as demonstrated here are out to demonize her here because she’s a) a Republican, and b) stolen a lot of the star power from their candidate. Republicans, suddenly are in love with her because she’s a) a Republican, and b) because she could gain a lot of disgruntled Hillary voters. Both sides are sheep, don’t be fooled.
No sheep here. If Obama refused all interviews, press conferences, and stuck to obnoxious sound bites I wouldn’t be able to stand him either. Really, why on Earth that’s not absolutely alarming to everyone and their Alzheimer riddled great grandmother is completely lost on me. I’m hoping she is more capable than she appears because there’s a good chance over 50 million voters are going to prove their willingness to vote in anything Republican.
I am trying to get some work done today – but I just had to tell “ya” — the witchcraft video is on the homepage of A O L ! Link: Witchunter Blesses Sarah Palin.
I still can’t bring myself to read the comments – there are always so many ugly posters on there. But this link does help reach a few more of the flock.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-on-bin-laden-such-a_n_129213.html
Oh my, oh my… can’t wait to see the whole thing. Couric sounds like she’s marking a student exam at the end of it (paraphrasing here) – “I asked her to compare and contrast and she replied in generalities.” Ouch.
I saw a phone number on Huffpo last night that was for the election committee. You could call and demand the debates to go a head. I called
but “the mail box was full”. I bet it was! Anyway, now I can not find the
comment and the phone number.
Anyone have it?
Please remember that Palin is NOT representative of Bible-believing Christians. She is using God’s Word for her OWN purposes. We are supposed to do God’s will, not our own.
Alaskans,
does McSame suspension show any signs of the legal team activities abatement or suspension in your fine state?
thanks in advance for any update from those in the know.
Aussie Puck Mule Revlon Red Palin (08:34:38) : re: slighting the genuine Southern Hospitality
————————————————————————
Oh, I really do understand their fury! I got a poll phone call yesterday for a NC State candidate just 30 minutes after this broke! I almost felt sorry for the pollster, except I got him so fired up that he was telling everyone else in the office what happened!;)
The insult felt at the University of Mississippi is the insult we have all been feeling…I hope they will let this sink in and vote accordingly.
BTW – just saw on Daily Kos — Andrew Sullivan reporting that McCain ads are still running and he is calling him on it. Nice — non-suspension suspension of his campaign. (I know I read here earlier that ads were seen on TV this morning).
Let’sGetReal (08:26:06) :
They were extreme religious believers/followers…
They were extreme AND plentiful. And many are just people looking to cling to their bibles out of fear. A truism.
2008
sfgr8gal (08:26:06) :
with regard to churches and political messages, I seem to remember reading that there is now a movement to overturn this…can anyone research?
Yep, they threaten their tax exempt status. and not just Bush pushers. Liberal churches have been threatened for their anti war stance which is well withing their rights. God forbid you see an anti war evangelican church.
@ Sue (08:42:11): I think everyone who posts here realises that Palin does not represent bible-believing Christians. Most people here realise that Palin is not representing anyone other than herself (I normally try to avoid making generalising statements like that, sorry).
Obama Effigy Hung From Ore. Campus Tree Students at George Fox University Still Reeling From Racially Charged Incident. George Fox is a predominantly white Christian college Sept. 25, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=5880728&page=1
***THIS IS RATHER DISTURBING
@ Cassie said — The insult felt at the University of Mississippi is the insult we have all been feeling…I hope they will let this sink in and vote accordingly.
—-
I was thinking the same thing – I know Ole Miss is a red state – but do you suppose this insult might result in a few more Obama votes? I hope so!
Florida voter registrations seems to have been huge – close on 90,000 in the last month alone, to a point where there are more registered Democrats than Republicans – well done to the team down there 🙂
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-voter2508sep25,0,6238727.story
sfgr8gal
Churches -vs- IRS
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx
Pastors participating in the Alliance Defense Fund’s “Pulpit Freedom Sunday” will preach from their pulpits Sept. 28 about the moral qualifications of candidates seeking political office. The pastors will exercise their First Amendment right to preach on the subject, despite federal tax regulations that prohibit intervening or participating in a political campaign.
Judi, there is no way to contact the Commission on Pres. Debates directly (media site has been taken down), but I’ve sent off emails to my representatives and senators denouncing McCain’s antics! I am somewhat encouraged, however, when I look at a few of the commission names…
*sfgr8gal Political proselytizing … Apparently the megachurches want their behavior be reported to the IRS because they believe that the current court will strike down the no politics rule for nonprofits (including churches) as a free speech issue. Actually, no one is interfering with their free speech. They simply can’t expect tax payers to pay for it. That is the deal.
Bec,
saw his economic advisor on the tube early a.m. and that’s what got my thoughts going on this idea of “suspension”. hope the MSM covers the inconsistancies in this charade and distraction.
Press, grow a pair. Make it simple for the masses…remember Katrina split screen views? you can do split screen balance again no? JM suspension proclomation on one side, reality on the other…maybe little lawyers coercing Alaskans?
does it ever end? LOL
pastor muthee at 1 minute 20 seconds on “the economics of our nation”:
“The second area whereby God wants us, wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says that the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. It’s high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity running the economics of our nations. That’s what we are waiting for. That’s part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the — you know — if you look at the Israelites, that’s how they work. And that’s how they are, even today.”
I know everyone is bashing McCain over picking Palin, but you need to back up a bit in time to the primaries. The Republican primary was supposed to go to either Huckabee or Romney and when McCain jumped out in front, neither one of those candidates was able to rally enough support. McCain and the evangelicals dislike each other and when it became clear that McCain was going to be the Republican nominee, the evangelical base threatened to stay home. They wanted Huckabee as the least offensive choice because as a Mormon Romney was never going to get support from the base.
So, the far right of the Republican Party are the evangelicals closely attached to the neo-cons like Cheney. While the far right dislikes McCain the neo-cons like him because he’s one of them when it comes to the military and war. The fiscal conservative Republicans have been firmly shut out of the decision making on the campaign and thus are defecting to Obama.
On to the convention and the far right made it clear that McCain was not welcome with his maverick views. The platform is one of the most conservative on record and trouble quickly brewed over the choice of vice-president. McCain wanted Tom Ridge as his running mate but because Ridge is pro-choice the evangelicals said never. McCain’s second choice was Joe Lieberman but he’s a closet Democrat and pro-choice and worst of all a Jew.
At this point on the short list the option put forth by those in charge of the Republican Party was Romney who Mormon faith was less of a burden than being pro-choice. McCain said no way and instead plucked Palin out of the mudflats. McCain knew then that he couldn’t win without a centrist vice-president and the choice of Palin is typical McCain, act first, think second and regret never as he in effect said, ‘So you want one of your own? Fine.’ So now he’s stuck with a VP he doesn’t want and can’t get rid of unless the ‘dirty’ Democrats do the deed for him.
The sidebar in all this is the feud on the Democratic side between the Clintons and the DNC that lead to Obama being the candidate. Neither party really wants the White House in 2008 and who can blame them? Both the Democrats and Republicans are already looking towards 2012 when the opposing party can field a real candidate and save America. By then it may be too late.
You make the comparison — watch both ,, amazing similarities
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-on-bin-laden-such-a_n_129213.html ( she starts 45 seconds in )
Independent in AZ,
You hit it the nail on the head there! I called the political guy at the station that was running the ads in my market this morning — guess what — the guy’s voicemail was f-u-l-l…
On second thought, how could we get the fires stoked in the MSM about this false campaign ‘suspension’???
I saw the witch doctor and this is what he said,
“ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang!” Seriously though, I grew up with this type of “religion” in the South. It doesn’t scare me, and believe it or not a lot of folks are happy and excited to see her receiving this blessing. Prayer is powerful.
@ sosad (08:58:55): Argh, choke, coffee all over keyboard…
[…] from here. […]
//tuaka1992 (09:01:21) : Seriously though, I grew up with this type of “religion” in the South. It doesn’t scare me, and believe it or not a lot of folks are happy and excited to see her receiving this blessing. Prayer is powerful.//
If I were a Republican, I’d be working overtime to squash this witch hunter story. So I’m not surprised to see push-back both overt and subtle.
sorry about your keyboard a brit abroad — had to do it ,, insane ,,, please o please let there be a debate ..
*Brian
Your cynicism is overwhelming. You may be close on the Republicans but are totally off on the Democrats. The Clintons and the DNC only became an issue AFTER Clinton lost and couldn’t accept it. For the Democrats the Clinton people thought Hillary was anointed and totally underestimated not only Obama, but a strong desire in the populace for something beyond dynastic politics.
Saying Palin and Obama are equal is just a Republican talking point. I don’t care how you dress it up.
@Memphis
First let me say, I do not want politics in my church or any church I attend, in fact I do not believe there should be politic in any church or religious tax-exempt institution. The ADF is not a church…you probably already know that though. My experience with regards to pulpit and politics will probably not change this Sunday regardless of the ADF’s “Pulpit Freedom Sunday” I would venture to say, that in most of the churches that participate in the ADF’s “PFS” will talk about the principles we the people should look for in a leader. And to be more specific, what Christian principles we should look for in our leaders. Now my church Redeemer Presbyterian Church is a very large church in NYC, with a very active congregation. Our pastor Tim Keller has never to my recollection preached Politics. In fact if you can download his sermon on the Sunday after 9/11 I assure you, you will see his dexterity of talking about the real world issues in a non partisan way.
Should we deny tax exempt for church’s that pull their congregation by the nose to the polls? Absolutely! Should we bury the whole church community and the good they do because of a few. Absolutely not!
Instead of uniting to take tax money from the churches, we should unite to create a Lobbying Tax Rate.
Here is the difference-In a church one man speaks to many and most will do what they want when they leave-On Capital Hill, when a few lobbyists speak to one man, they will spend significant resources to get the one man to do what they want and he most likely will.
Who said palin and Obama are equal ???? what ????
Omama — Head of Harvard law review
Palin — Head of a moose in stew
tuaka1992 (09:01:21) :
I saw the witch doctor and this is what he said,
“ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang!” Seriously though, I grew up with this type of “religion” in the South. It doesn’t scare me, and believe it or not a lot of folks are happy and excited to see her receiving this blessing. Prayer is powerful.
OK, that was funny 😀
Hick Town in W PA (08:50:03) :
… Apparently the megachurches want their behavior be reported to the IRS …
That is my understanding as well. They want to force the issue and feel that this is a good time to mobilize voters, possibly get a positive ruling from the courts and open up their churches each Sunday for the purpose of combining church and state.
Ahh, what a perfectly awful mess it would be to watch them fight it out among themselves for the absolute right to rule. This is the reality that they fail to face: there are many faiths in America, not just theirs, all each of them is of the impression that they are right.
I’m not anti-religion, even though I consider myself a raging humanist, and I agree with much that has been written here regarding the good that most churches do. But what seems to be missing, of late, is a belief in tolerance, and that, dear Mudpups, is disturbing.
Ha! Just found the phone number to call to tell the debate comitee not to postpone Friday: (202) 872-1020. I will try again!
Just called and actually got a human person. They are “not canceling the debate Friday night”..
Does anyone else think this is the elephant in the room for the GOP: There will be more than a few racist voters who will be disturbed by the concept of an African pastor being the spiritual leader of Sarah Palin?
My liberal Unitarian Universalist church in IN is absolutely scrupulous about not supporting any political candidate. We are very afraid of losing our tax exempt status and we couldn’t afford to exist as we do if we had to pay taxes. Why do the fundamentalist Christian churches get away with this stuff?
I can’t watch the video; I already have enough trouble sleeping at night.
Thanks for the summary of the Reverand’s talking points, though. Why is this not an issue like Rev. Wright was for Obama? Sigh.
Excuse me while I go withdraw all of my money and put it under my mattress.
This election is rapidly devolving.
@Cassie,
I think what is going on here, is that a few megalomaniacs Evangelicals want a voice on the national stage. They are willing to stand on the backs of the good hardworking churches; big and small, in order to be seen as smart and relevant. I say to them beware of the fall-Think Ted Haggard-the mouth is always wider then the foot.
The better legislation would be a law that tells the megalomaniacs to sit down and shut up.
Yes, Lulu. It was one of my first thoughts.
SMR Thanks…
Unlike Sarah Palin, I KNOW that I am not qualified to be a VP… and i wouldn’t take the pay cut and long hours either.
You guys have been my strength! Let me tell you of my experience with this type of church…
I was “recruited” into a Pentecostal Holiness church @ 13 yrs of age. It’s congregation was mostly Hispanic with a little of everyone else included. We wore the long skirts and went out to witness on the streets.
My first pastor taught us to fish for those looking for a positive change in their life or headed in the wrong direction. He taught us to be helpful and not judge people. We often had winos and homeless in our church and I saw that unconditional love from our Pastor and God’s work change lives.
Our Pastor died when I was 15 and we were appointed a new one. One more on the lines of SP’s pastor. He scoffed at the former pastor’s direction and changed the whole christian experience for me. I soon left the church after a couple of sermons that were hateful towards unbelievers and the clincher was the second anti-semetic one (my best friend in school and half of my classmates were Jewish) saying terrible, terrible things.
I lived in a city that was big enough that I could avoid members of my former church for the most part. I never explained why I left to anyone in the church, I just moved on and was pleased that I could now play sports with pants on.
However my sister in the church was a young girl that was so sweet and loving, energetic, open and generous to the world. She changed in the months following, not just towards me but in general. She was like a robot, lifeless and walking with her nose in the air. We were supposed to go to school together and go into business.
By 17 she was married and pregnant and I was in college.
My first pastor who taught me to love God and people changed my life forever. This second pastor killed all of my friend’s dreams for herself, it was like talking to a different person.
What do folks from a small town do in these circumstances, I wonder? Where do they turn when they know the message is wrong? What type of Christian are these radical pastor’s creating? How much of their hate and intolerance is divied out among their congregation? Someone once mentioned the “Handmaid’s Tale”. I can almost see it if McCain/Palin is elected.
I have been having flashes of the crusades and spanish inquisition.
As Rachel Maddow says “I need someone to talk me down”.
I just want to place in nomination an award for the funniest quote I read today.
<a href=Quick! Hide Sarah Palin! – Hilzoy
I served with quick studies. I knew quick studies. Quick studies were a friend of mine. Sarah Palin: you’re no quick study.
ugh. Let me try the link again.
Quick! Hide Sarah Palin!
Sarah Takes Questions at Ground Zero:
Note the answer to the last question about the bailout…she is saying it is McCains that McCain is not going to agree to the proposal until he is sure the debate has passed.
POLITICO: Do you support the reelection bids of embattled Alaska Republicans, Rep. Don Young and Sen. Ted Stevens?
A: Ted Stevens trial started a couple days ago. We’ll see where that goes.
POLITICO: Are you gong to vote for them?
[no answer.]
JERSEY JOURNAL: What do you think of bailout package before congress?
A: I don’t support that until the provisions that Sen. McCain has offered are implemented in Paulson’s proposals.
bPoint (09:21:14) :
A number of years ago, I read an article that compared evangelical/megachurch leaders to politicians. The article concluded that the egos involved are starkly similar. Can it be that this is the reason they want the line blurred between church and state?
Enough Already AKA Emough Already (09:24:10) What do those who live in small towns do when their church disappoints them?
————————————————————————
Answer: we become humanists who read the bible, respect our fellow men, raise our children with integrity and become Mudflatters!
@JudiB,
Thanks for that phone number!
News:
Congress has a deal and it’s only Thursday.
Sorry Johnny, that means you can still debate!
Well, now – isn’t that just friggin special!
Post this bit of information to all of the msm – newpapers and tv and let’s watch as the mccain palin ticket dissolves. There is no where for them to go but further down
I guess there is a god after all and he/she is not happy!
This is from a discussion list on WAPO. I think it is a hoot!
Washington: So McCain wants to cancel the debate, and his campaign will be happy to reschedule more town halls in its place. How is this not considered a blatant political tactic?
Dana Milbank: Actually the best part is he wants to reschedule tomorrow’s debate for the same night as next week’s vice presidential debate, which I can only assume the McCain campaign will propose postponing until Nov. 5.
On the other hand, I’d consider it a fair deal if they called off the vice presidential debate and instead released a full transcript of Palin’s meeting with Kissinger.
Cassie,
The real trouble sadly is only a few want to blur the line.
Let the big mouth megalomaniacs leave their churches and run for office.
Don’t just talk, do something. Let the churches get back to their work in the community.
The debate is going on whether McCain shows up or not. That fact has been announced. It is Mccain’s self-created problem. Don’t bother calling anyone.
As I said, the megachurches are free to say whatever they want. They just can’t claim tax-exempt status when they do.
I am going to have to wait until the kids take a nap to watch this.
~Hyla
http://earthyfinds.blospot.com
@Hick Town
I am with you on that…Let us call it-Pay to Say-ok?
Hallelulia!!! The End Is Near!!! For McSame and Plain, that is!!!
President Obama got it right when, upon hearing of Plain’s selection, mentioned that she was Mayor of WASILLY!!!
Fired UP! Ready to VOTE!!!
* bPoint Exactly. They should register as political organizations if that is their concern. What was it Jesus said about rendering unto Caesar?
ds55
//If I were a Republican, I’d be working overtime to squash this witch hunter story. So I’m not surprised to see push-back both overt and subtle.//
ds55,
The Republicans may think this will cause some of the moderate and intelligent members to run away, but it will energize the base. I have lived in Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana with relatives in South Carolina, and I swear to you that many folks believe in this type of religion. Both blacks and whites. I don’t know if you are familiar with terms like, “roots,” “hoodoo,” or “voodoo,” but I have heard this and even “seen” it in practice. I’ve sat in church and fled because people were having “demons” prayed out of them. Perhaps the main reason, I packed my bags and my child, and told my ex and family goodbye and moved to California was to get away from the craziness.
I’m just trying to get people to understand that for thousands of people, this is positive.
But I’m voting a straight Dem ticket.
@ Hick Town
Right on…You don’t kill the horse to change his shoes
Right at 5:28 the voice changes — don’t think it’s the same person talking. To you hear it?
Expecting McCain & Palin to correct the economy is like taking an arsonist to a fire.
Sorry folks, this is crazy long, but I thought you might be interested. It just hit my email today.
Humane Society Endorses Obama and Biden–Read WHY
—————————————
Humane Society Legislative Fund Endorses Obama-Biden
One of the guiding principles of the Humane Society Legislative Fund
is that we evaluate candidates based on a single criterion: where
they stand on animal protection policies. We don’t make decisions
based on party affiliation, or any other social issue, or even how
many pets they have. We care about their views and actions on the
major policy debates relating to animal welfare.
It stirs controversy to get involved in candidate elections. But we
believe that candidates for office and current lawmakers must be
held accountable, or they will see the animal protection movement as
a largely irrelevant political constituency. In order to have good
laws, we need good lawmakers, and involvement in elections is an
essential strategy for any serious social movement, including our
cause.
While we’ve endorsed hundreds of congressional candidates for
election, both Democrats and Republicans, we’ve never before
endorsed a presidential candidate. We have members on the left, in
the center, and on the right, and we knew it could be controversial
to choose either party’s candidate for the top office in the nation.
But in an era of sweeping presidential power, we must weigh in on
this most important political race in the country. Standing on the
sidelines is no longer an option for us.
I’m proud to announce today that the HSLF board of directors —
which is comprised of both Democrats and Republicans — has voted
unanimously to endorse Barack Obama for President. The Obama-Biden
ticket is the better choice on animal protection, and we urge all
voters who care about the humane treatment of animals, no matter
what their party affiliation, to vote for them.
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has been a solid supporter of animal
protection at both the state and federal levels. As an Illinois
state senator, he backed at least a dozen animal protection laws,
including those to strengthen the penalties for animal cruelty, to
help animal shelters, to promote spaying and neutering, and to ban
the slaughter of horses for human consumption. In the U.S. Senate,
he has consistently co-sponsored multiple bills to combat animal
fighting and horse slaughter, and has supported efforts to increase
funding for adequate enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act, Humane
Methods of Slaughter Act, and federal laws to combat animal fighting
and puppy mills.
In his response to the HSLF questionnaire, he pledged support for
nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress,
and said he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S.
Department of Agriculture and the Department of the Interior to make
their policies more humane. He wrote of the important role animals
play in our lives, as companions in our homes, as wildlife in their
own environments, and as service animals working with law
enforcement and assisting persons with disabilities. He also
commented on the broader links between animal cruelty and violence
in society.
Obama has even on occasion highlighted animal protection issues on
the campaign trail, and has spoken publicly about his support for
animal protection. In reaction to the investigation showing the
abuse of sick and crippled cows which earlier this year led to the
largest meat recall in U.S. history, he issued a statement
saying “that the mistreatment of downed cows is unacceptable and
poses a serious threat to public health.” He is featured in Jana
Kohl’s book about puppy mills, A Rare Breed of Love, with a photo of
Obama holding Baby (shown above), the three-legged poodle rescued
from an abusive puppy mill operation, and his political mentor, Sen.
Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), is the author of the latest federal bill to
crack down on puppy mills.
Importantly, Obama’s running mate, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) has been
a stalwart friend of animal welfare advocates in the Senate, and has
received high marks year after year on the Humane Scorecard. Biden
has not only supported animal protection legislation during his
career, but has also led the fight on important issues. He was the
co-author with Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) in the 108th Congress
on legislation to ban the netting of dolphins by commercial tuna
fishermen. He was the lead author of a bill in the 107th Congress to
prohibit trophy hunting of captive exotic mammals in fenced
enclosures, and he successfully passed the bill through the Senate
Judiciary Committee.
On the Republican ticket, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has also
supported some animal protection bills in Congress, but has been
inattentive or opposed to others. He has voted for and co-sponsored
legislation to stop horse slaughter, and voted to eliminate a $2
million subsidy for the luxury fur coat industry. But he has largely
been absent on other issues, and has failed to co-sponsor a large
number of priority bills or sign onto animal protection letters that
have had broad support in the Senate.
The McCain campaign did not fill out the HSLF presidential
questionnaire, and has also not issued any public statements on
animal welfare issues. He was silent during the downed animal
scandal and beef recall, which played out during a high-point in the
primary fight. Yet he did speak at the NRA convention earlier this
year, and is the keynote speaker this weekend in Columbus, Ohio, at
the U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance rally-an extremist organization that
defends the trophy hunting of threatened polar bears and captive
shooting of tame animals inside fenced pens.
While McCain’s positions on animal protection have been lukewarm,
his choice of running mate cemented our decision to oppose his
ticket. Gov. Sarah Palin’s (R-Alaska) retrograde policies on animal
welfare and conservation have led to an all-out war on Alaska’s
wolves and other creatures. Her record is so extreme that she has
perhaps done more harm to animals than any other current governor in
the United States.
Palin engineered a campaign of shooting predators from airplanes and
helicopters, in order to artificially boost the populations of moose
and caribou for trophy hunters. She offered a $150 bounty for the
left foreleg of each dead wolf as an economic incentive for pilots
and aerial gunners to kill more of the animals, even though Alaska
voters had twice approved a ban on the practice. This year, the
issue was up again for a vote of the people, and Palin led the fight
against it — in fact, she helped to spend $400,000 of public funds
to defeat the initiative.
What’s more, when the Bush Administration announced its decision to
list the polar bear as threatened under the Endangered Species Act,
Palin filed a lawsuit to reverse that decision. She said it’s
the “wrong move” to protect polar bears, even though their habitat
is shrinking and ice floes are vanishing due to global warming.
The choice for animals is especially clear now that Palin is in the
mix. If Palin is put in a position to succeed McCain, it could mean
rolling back decades of progress on animal issues.
Voters who care about protecting wildlife from inhumane and
unsporting abuses, enforcing the laws that combat large-scale
cruelties like dogfighting and puppy mills, providing humane
treatment of animals in agriculture, and addressing other challenges
that face animals in our nation, must become active over the next
six weeks to elect a president and vice president who share our
values. Please spread the word, and tell friends and family members
that an honest assessment of the records of the two presidential
tickets leads to the inescapable conclusion that Obama-Biden is the
choice for humane-minded voters.
off topic: Received this in an email today and was wondering what others thought?
“Here’s an interesting idea which I received on the AIG Bailout: I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a “We Deserve It Dividend”.
To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 boneifide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a “We Deserve It Dividend”.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife have $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
– Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved. – Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads.
– Put some away money for college – it’ll be there. – Save some in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
– Buy a new car – create jobs.
– Invest in the market – capital drives growth.
– Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves.
– Enable “Deadbeat Dads” to come clean – or else.
Remember this is for every adult U.S. Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And, of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it…instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( “attempted vote buying” ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U.S. Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it. Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t. Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.” But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion “We Deserve It Dividend” more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.
And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh… I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Kindest personal regards,
A Creative Person & Citizen of the Republic
PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as its either good for a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!”
So what say you? Block parties anyone?
CNN breaking news: Economic rescue plan agreed (not a bail out then)… no details yet though…
Then, at 9:02 it switches back to the first (original?) voice. Do you hear it, too?
Don’t know how that happened…lost my name on about post
@Lulu
“Does anyone else think this is the elephant in the room for the GOP: There will be more than a few racist voters who will be disturbed by the concept of an African pastor being the spiritual leader of Sarah Palin?”
I had the same thought, especially after seeing a summary of ads being run by the GOP in the Midwest, each of which focused on a person of color as a “bad” guy who had connections to Obama.
Indiana Pearl, In answer to your question…
” Why do the fundamentalist Christian churches get away with this stuff?”
The big ones get away with this stuff precisely because, unlike your law-abiding smaller church, they can afford to do so. The “mega-churhes” make “mega-bucks”. It always comes down to power and the almighty dollar.
…forgot to add…
So, they should be able to afford to pay taxes in order to enjoy the rights of a private, tax-paying citizen.
Search the Web on Snap.com <– how did I become?
It looks like I’ve stirred the pot a bit. I just started a blog (no I won’t discrespect the host and give the name out) to discuss issues in a still respectful way, but to welcome different opinions as I come from somewhere near the center of the political spectrum. The purpose of my comments is to expose the fact that some are out just to defame Palin, and grasp at any communication, confirmed or not, hypocritical or not, and so on to try to cater to their point. I won’t say the same tactics aren’t used on the other side, and I call them on it, as I have here. I sincerely hope people put down the pompoms and look at the issues.
Neither Obama nor McCain are going to bring change as they are part of the system and the problem. Both have some good points, some bad, and some skeletons. What I always ask people to do is forget party, and focus on issue. If you don’t know the platform/issues of someone on the ballot, DO NOT VOTE FOR THEM, leave it blank. The two main parties have correctly figured we Americans are lazy by nature, and would rather see the story on what Britney did this week, then what the real issues, and realistic remedies are. They would rather you think one party is good, and one bad all of the time, and forget the issues. Then they can just focus on sound bites as most party cheerleaders don’t fact-check their own candidates, or truly focus on their issues, they rely on the candidates to spell them out for them. It’s said that it’s no longer We the People, but it’s We the Sheeple, and gathering around like-minded people for discussion unfortunately fosters this.
I apologize if I was unaware the purpose of this forum was to one-up each other in same-thought discussion.
//Jill Oserowsky (09:59:53) : Then, at 9:02 it switches back to the first (original?) voice. Do you hear it, too?//
In order to prove someone tampered with the audio, the original video will need to be released. Any Palin supporters up for the challenge?
McCain must be crazy that the Senate has come to an agreement on the bailout before he could get in the room and take credit….Now he will have to say it is a terrible plan and he does not support it. His solution will be to rewrite the plan, say tomorrow evening around 9pm.
@ Jill Oserowsky (09:59:53) : I hear the difference too – it’s quite obvious if you’re listening to the voice and not what he’s saying. So, what should be there instead?
Debate or no debate? That is the question.
This is my take being a veteran Mom of 5.
Honey is your homework done? Er um I just have a little bit left. Are you done? Well no.
Honey have you studied for that test Friday? I am getting to it Mom. I don’t understand why I have to study, I am confident I have all the answers.
Mom why can’t the teacher postpone the test just a few more days? I am not quite ready yet. She is being so mean and is just picking on me!
My answer to my children was: You had a deadline, you knew what the deadline was so it was your responsiblity to get the work and studying done. Period.
This whole issue that McCain has raised and continues to push is just another flashback to my child rearing years. They are not ready, they have not done their homework and it is everyone else’s fault and therefore the test should be delayed or postponed.
Well I did not buy it then and I sure as hell am not buying it now. I held my children responsible and that is what I am going to do with these candidates!
Please tell me I’m still in a rehab and this is all alcohol withdrawal…
Render unto Caaesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s.
I don’t care if Sarah is a Wiccan, I want the Constitution respected and Chuch and State to be separate. Very passionately.
bPoint – You mean they didn’t need his leadership in this time of crisis? Say it isn’t so….
What are McCain’s provisions? The last I heard was that as of yesterday he hadn’t even read the original bailout bill yet.
I did read Obama’s proposals early in the week and based on the rumors trickling down regarding the bill which apparently is almost a done deal, if sounds like almost all the things Obama proposed are included.
When did McCain come out with provisions?
Interesting side note: Foxnews has the Rev. Muthee story on front page of elections coverage.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/25/pastor-blessed-palin-to-protect-her-from-witchcraft/
Anyone but me think that the right is getting a little weary of the hot Gov?
She is a giant albratross around the party neck right now with weirder and scarier things emering daily about her. And I’m sure that pesky Troopergate investigation report looming on the 10th can’t be bringing warm fuzzies to anyone.
Let’s face it. She can’t speak on her own. She can’t think on her own. There is no way she could ever debate Biden. She doesn’t help McCain at all with campaigning because she can’t face the press and make his case for him.
I’m starting to think the October surprise is going to be the ‘Gambler’ cutting his losses with Palin and bringing Romney in just in time to debate Biden. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
@Libbs
Q: Do you know what is playing right now over the loudspeaker on Capital Hill?
A: I hear you knockin’, but you can’t come in.
AKM: The first mention of Sarah is at the 10-second mark. “In a moment, I’ll be asking you that we pray for Sarah.”
Gotta love the Italians for providing a moment of lightness amongst all the Sarah/scary, Bi-polar-droopy-eyed/McShame stuff going on. If you need a momentary break or have forgotten how to smile,
go here: http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/2224950/33829142
I love Barney Frank! This is a fun article about his description of the bailout negotiations today. Do read down to the last paragraph about Sarah.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/Frank_Republicans_winced_when_McCain_was_mentioned_in_meeting.html?showall
@Search the Web
I’ll take mine in 100s and 20s. Thanks.
Oops – that link didn’t work …. let’s try it again
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/2224950/33829142
bPoint- Thanks, now that song is going to play over and over in my head all day! LOL
Here are the lyrics in case anyone wants to sing along:
You went away and left me long time ago and
now you’re knocking on my door
I hear you knocking but you can’t come in
I hear you knocking ,go back where you’ve been
I begged you not to go but you said :”goodbye”
and now you’re telling me all your lies
I hear you knocking but you can’t come in
I hear you knocking ,go back where you’ve been
You better go back to your “used-to-be”
cause you and your love ain’t no good for me
I hear you knocking but you can’t come in
I hear you knocking ,go back where you’ve been
ocliberal (10:16:11) says, “I’m starting to think the October surprise is going to be the ‘Gambler’ cutting his losses with Palin and bringing Romney in just in time to debate Biden.” Yup, yup! Unless he just doesn’t care anymore.
Bec in Illinois – thanks for the link!
Classic Quote of the Day-
“He’s been irrelevant to the process. He remains to be,” said Frank.
@Charles
I would like to paraphrase Sarah for a second….”I bet he wishes he picked Mitt…”
McCain cannot dump Palin. It will not serve his campaign well holding to the sound judgement line. If McCain/Palin can keep the Troopergate facts stifled until after the election, and she has served her purpose of holding the republican base together and they win, God forbid. Then they will let the snakes out of the Troopergate bag.
Sarah Palin will be forced to step down as VP. The news of her replacement will muffle the Troopergate story and she will fade away quickly. The headline grabbing news of a VP stepping down will be the big story, until it becomes the story of another politician being investigated for corruption, and her replacement is chosen, then the new VP becomes the story for a couple of days but because the election is over, the press will go about looking under rocks in Hollywood for news.
I read in another blog about Max Blumenthal and his visit to the Wasilla church to see Muthee this month. (Sept. 20-21). Supposedly he was able to get video and audio of his sermons and will be putting them out soon. He has a site but it has been down. Anyone have insight on this?
@mk2000
I wonder if McCains’ “Truth Squad” captured Max
charles: He may not care, but I think the Republican machine is going to care. It’s not just the Presidential election on the line. 35 Senate seats are on the line and all 443 House seats are up for reelection.
If this campaign continues down this road the Republicans are looking at a wholesale slaughter in November.
Sometimes you have to amputate the limb to save the body. Palimb is becoming expendable. (And if anyone doesn’t care, it’s probably her.)
I sure she can find a nice job with Fox News. Maybe she replace Hannity. That would be a great improvement!
For anyone who needs some levity now that we know the debate goes on and that the Wall Street Bailout seems on track( sorry SP)
Wanda Sykes’ take on Republicans (Dr. Evil) and SWWNBN. Way too funny 😉
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/wanda-sykes-tears-into-go_n_128902.html
loudelf (10:03:35) :
It looks like I’ve stirred the pot a bit. ( OK let’s stir your stew, is that moose or chicken?)
No loudelf, you just show that this blog maybe the only place where you can voice your opinion and leave with your head attached.
Ask yourself why is that you come here?
Historically democrats come into office with the remnants of GOP destruction and this administration like others in the past will leave us bankrupt! And the Dems have to raise funds to balance the budget by taxing.
See it’s not important that a leader has my same religious beliefs, gender or race. It’s important to me that they will put you, my neighbors, the lady in Maine, and the man in Arkansas in front of their own self interests. DO THEIR JOB! It’s important that I feel that when no one is looking they will do what is right by all of us with whatever they have.
So if your purpose here is to sway our opinion this is not the way to do it. Your third party candidate ( I assume you haveo ne?) Will not win this election.
My assignment for you is for YOU to decide which candidate that WILL win will lead our country out of this total disaster?
Then decide which way you will vote and be able to sleep somewhat soundly for the next 4 years.
See loudelf I have already talked people like you down off the wall.
“Why vote because it won’t make a difference, they’re all the same and all that stuff I consider CRAP!
See I am wise enough to know that my vote counts no matter what, because communities that don’t vote are the last to get things that they need. They have no voice in their state legislature. So I vote and I leave my cushy office and work the polls on every election and primary because MY country deserves it! MY community deserves it! MY family deserves it and SO DOES YOURS!
See, I have to wonder. What has our Sarah been up to? What have the McCain campaign been doing to assist her in keeping it quiet? How complicit do their actions make them and, if they cut her loose now, how far will the air circulation device propel the excretory material?
There has to be a reason she’s not gone and it feels like fear.
Full written transcript of Thomas Muthee’s sermon:
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2008/09/23/transcript-of-thomas-muthees-sermon-endorsing-sarah-palin/
Over half the sermon comes before the 5:28 mark. He first talks about “God invading 7 areas in our society”. The first is “spiritual aspect of our society”, the second is “economic”, the third is “politics” and the fourth is “education”.
After the 5:28 mark, his voice sounds different as he talks about “the media” and “government” which seems the same as politics mentioned earlier, but totals only six areas.
If anyone finds what they believe is the original version of the video, I’d love to see it to find out what could be worse than what Muthee already said at the start of the video.
@ocliberal,
The Republican machine is in denial. The hold their blackberries waiting for the talking points to support any tack McCain takes. The idea of seeing Republican senators coming out of chambers to push the McCain talking points that support canceling the debate to the pundits is cult like. They are being led to slaughter, but they don’t have to go
bPoint, I wondered that too. Max is certainly not going to enjoy the company in that “cone of silence” but just imagine the material he’ll come out of there with. Assuming he comes out at all. I hear there sharks with frickin’ laser beams attached to their heads in there!
FREE MAX!
Here is an interesting tidbit. Forgive me if this has been touched on already.
A friend told me that Palin sent out a letter to friends and family after baby Trig was born. The interesting thing is that the letter, written by Sarah herself, was written as if God was writing it!!!
Rumor is that many in the Assembly of God congregation believe Sarah IS the second coming of Jesus which is in line with their belief that this will occur through the White House during which Armageddon will ensue.
…just another thing that will keep you up tonight…
@ BobG
Are you sure it’s GONE, or is it just off the front page? Try
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26880901/
[…] Palin and the Witch Hunter – Chapter II. Posted on September 25, 2008 by gregornot Palin and the Witch Hunter – Chapter II. […]
My 2 cents: I think the audio does not synch with the video. I think some of the praying was clipped out.
When the speaker asks the congregation to be seated everyone remains standing. They don’t sit until later. Also the speaker asks the congregation to go to the Book of Mark, but in gestures he is still praying over Sarah Palin.
todays meeting with the press ….
@ Enough Already
I feel quite honoured to be on the same blog as you!
@ ds55
I’m really really intrigued by why “they” would switch a voice for part of the sermon. Where does the video come from? And what was the seventh area, if there was one?
We The People are the true leaders in this country and it’s time we took it back from Wall Street, the MSM and Washington D.C.
Yes, but we are getting steam-rolled by the politics of fear, and we the people can not stop this bailout, even when it is the taxpayer that is funding this corporate welfare program. STOP THE BAILOUT!
Steak Leather
They paraded Sarah at Ground Zero today – and apparently she has answered, like, two questions with the press.
Dang, I think my post got lost because of my link. Trying again, just add the http
Off topic a bit, but A) I think this blogger is sometimes VERY funny, and B) I loved the excerpt from a Rolling Stones story about Sarah Palin. I’ve bought one Rolling Stone in the past 10 years, and it was the one with Robert Downey Jr. on the cover — what a great interview. Now I will have to buy my second Rolling Stone. Warning, the content of this site is sometimes not safe for work, and the language may/will be offensive to some. Scroll way down, past the boring stuff about Megan Fox and then something about Kings of Leon, and you will get to the story from Rolling Stone.
//cajunboyinthecity.blogspot.com/
@Bec in Illinois (11:13:33):
That’s 2 more than she’s answering in Alaska on the Troopergate/Abuse of Power investigation.
Enough Already —
The second you started waving the pompoms, you kind of killed your arguement. The Democrats differ from the Republican in one thing: Who they redistribute the wealth to, thereby legally buying votes. Both parties do it, and it’s plain as day who they redistribute to. They are colluding corporations bent on brainwashing the masses with thoughts of “a vote for a third party is a wasted vote”. Why do they do this? It would force them to come up with solutions instead of spouting rhetoric. Had an independent like Michael Bloomberg jumped in, this race would have become all about issues and solutions instead of “well the [insert party name here] did this, and it was bad” and so on. That would have been a frightening proposition for Dems and Repubs. But enough people voting third party keeps that third party on the ballot the next time, and forces the candidates to actually focus on issues in that state when campaigning. Remember, neither the Democrats, nor the Republicans were around in the very beginning, and that can shift again. But blind unwaivering support is just what they want… just like what Hitler and Stalin wanted.
We are a nation of choices. And my choice is to educate myself on the issues through processing information, and discussing things with people who often don’t share my views. I’d hope others might make that same sound and logical choice as well.
Talking me down off the wall… that was good. No clue what it means, but you definitely sounded like you knew what you were saying.
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” – Sinclair Lewis
loudelf: I thought you were leaving? I can still hear you…
But hey, it’s okay, Mudflats is addicting. We all know that.
ocliberal,
Who said I was leaving? Unfortunately, we elves work at other times than just the night before Christmas. It’s not like Santa’s going to pay my bills if I just sit around.
Glad to hear you still have a job Loudelf. Lots of people are losing theirs right and left these days.
I was married to an Evangelical once, and believe I saw this Muthee fellow at his church on occasion. I was not popular with the group as I called BS on the show and refused to attend any services at all. Interesting how they refuse to let women be leaders in their church as far as holding pastoral office, etc., but now support this female as a vice presidential candidate.
To quote Ms. Palin, “It makes me ILL” to think of these people garnering any more control of our government. Her interview with KC made me ILL just watching her as an elected representative of our state.
Go home, Sarah Palin. Face the music, face the people. You’re an embarrassment to us as women and as Alaskans. How could we have put you in Juneau….
Financial melt down alert! I’m just so confused. Are these banks and credit card companies going broke or aren’t they? I’ve gotten over five letters from five credit cards offering me from $7-$150K at low interest rates. Now tell me again how come we have to bail these guy out?
Dumb and Dumber are meeting with Obama in an hour or so to do what exactly?
Arm twisting would be my guest. Come on….do you think they can scare Obama? I think not….maybe he will just be measuring the West Wing for new furniture.
I must agree, I think there was some sort of cut/ mess on the audio, but not on the video. In the version I saw/ heard, there was a distinctive “garblee” sound, for want of a better word, towards the end of the prayer. Why? At the time, I put it down to a lousy job uploading on the part of whoever posted it. Could it be something more sinister??!?? Perhaps the voice of god?!!!!? DA DA DA, DUH.
Sorry to get silly, but I’m just gobsmacked that anyone could find that rambling, incoherent crap inspiring enough to hoot, holler, or even try drown out with speaking in tongues.
loudelf (11:21:23) :
The second you started waving the pompoms, you kind of killed your arguement. The Democrats differ from the Republican in one thing: Who they redistribute the wealth to, thereby legally buying votes. Both parties do it, and it’s plain as day who they redistribute to. They are colluding corporations bent on brainwashing the masses with thoughts of “a vote for a third party is a wasted vote”.
———————————————————-
OK, I gave you the respect to wade through that wall of words. Three times. I call that rambling. ( please hit your enter key more often)
I could agrue this with you all day, I’ve had more practice then you, TRUST!
Where you lost me totally is with this;
Had an independent like Michael Bloomberg jumped in, this race would have become all about issues and solutions instead of “well the [insert party name here] did this, and it was bad” and so on. That would have been a frightening proposition for Dems and Repubs. But enough people voting third party keeps that third party on the ballot the next time, and forces the candidates to actually focus on issues in that state when campaigning.
———————————————————-
First of all i don’t know where you live but I am from NYC, and I KNOW that Mike Bloomberg should not be President either. See I have taken the time to study Libertarian talking points and so-called solutions. All they are IMHO are ultra-fiscally conservative republicans with better shoes and I bet you are carrying your own so called legal tender in your wallet right now.
Nobody frightened me into not voting third party. The fact that they run on such a limited agenda, call my civic and volunteer work worthless and cater to white well to-do men in general are why I have NEVER voted for a third party candidate actually.
BTW whenever a candidate I am voting for is on another party line, I vote on that party line ie.. Working Families, Independent etc… My Mom taught me to do that before I was old enough to vote.
I don’t call cutting income taxes but taxing everything else under the sun that you can get away with solutions. Next we will have to pay for breathing unless we purchase air on the open market, see that will create more jobs below a living age and more money for us (wringing our hands) the truly smart guys.
I love you guys a bunch, I do business with you all the time. I’ve even hired some of you. So sharp and entrepreneurial but I have two attorneys check any contract I sign with you guys, cover every angle with you in business and can’t trust you as far as I could throw you.
Well so far it looks like Obama is holding his own….no time to measure the furniture. Cheney looked a bit put out with all those cameras shooting over his shoulder. McCain just looked old and mean. Bush looks confused, what is he suppose to do now? Madame Speaker looks like the only clear head right now. Let’s see what comes next…..????
Off topic but I neeed help understanding…. really, seriously..
So it appears that the big banking institutions need $700 billion to enable them to keep money flowing through regular banks or else (according to Mr B) our paychecks won’t be paid and our banks will close etc etc
It appears that the 2 Pres hopefuls are for this as is Mr B but the general public seems to be saying no, it’s not coming out our pockets. If it is not passed and they don’t get their monies what happens? If the general public says no and the ‘bosses’ say yes then what happens? Is it that if the ‘bosses’ say yes it is so that overseas banks don’t get a piece of the US? i AM SO CONFUSED! Can some one explain this to me in very simple terms?
Thank you
Third party candidates give themselves too much credit. It’s an ego thing.
They don’t force candidates to deal with the issues. WE all as a people DO! Their political base does. You know the ones out there doing something instead of WHINING (my pailinism for the day).
Let me get back to work I am having a virgin cosmopolitans after work with two Libs, you inspired me to join them tonight. I call them Pinky and the Brain. LMAO
I wish that I lived in NYC so that I could be your friend, Enough Already. I will let you know when my next trip to NYC is planned (we have family in NY) and we can meet up for cosmopolitans, yours can be virgin, mine will NOT be. That will be a long time from now, though, but did talk to my aunt there yesterday to make sure that all of my political emails are getting to her & that she is voting Obama! She says she IS and that everyone that she knows is too!
“I could agrue this with you all day, I’ve had more practice then you”
Someone thinks a lot of themselves don’t they? So where’s the bombshell where you put me in my place? You definitely made some incorrect ASSumptions, and then tried to wow me by telling me you’ve employed people like me, as if somehow this is impressive, or somehow puts you at a higher level, or at even the same level of success as I’ve achieved.
All you’ve done is run in a circle, avoided imparting tangible info, and then tried to sound swanky. Typical party hack. Baah. Sheep in wolve’s clothing…
loudelf said:
“We are a nation of choices. And my choice is to educate myself on the issues through processing information, and discussing things with people who often don’t share my views. I’d hope others might make that same sound and logical choice as well.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now I think I’m starting to understand you. You are sound and logical for making a choice the majority of people don’t make. Therefore, you’re reasoning is superior.
(It seems that you think your ability to reason is greater than the average elf.)
Y’know, counter-culture doesn’t make your choices more sound.
The fact that I have educated myself on issues, spoken with a variety of people and come to the conclusion that I am voting for Obama makes me no less informed than you. It merely means that given roughly the same information, we came to different conclusions.
Your vote will count as much or as little as mine. Democracy at its finest.
@loudelf
Trust me I’m a woman of a certain age (a MILF I’ve been told) and I have had more practice debating then most.
And for the Duh! moment…
You can’t win with women, especially when YOU’RE WRONG! Didn’t your Dad teach you that one? They still teach that in second grade folks, don’t they?
This blog is not about party line… It’s about COMMON SENSE! The trolls only come in here to steal food and have more sense then pis off the family.
As far as all that personal stuff about swankiness… You are revealing your superiority complex. Geez, That employment revelation was a compliment. Shal I take it back?
I am no better then anyone else, I have just ONE VOTE ( do you have two?) a job is an illness or pink slip away and a business is a couple of bad decisions and a republican administration away from dissolution. ( Hence the Bear Stearns people who are still looking for a job with at least half their pay)
I work extra hard so that my son can attend Harvard like his hero Barack Obama. He brought me to BO, BTW. I supported Hillary in the primaries.
It seems like Libertarians and others are trying to recruit me like the church people did. Telling me of how I throw away money to support the poor and other great hits from their playbooks. They are usually CLEAR about their party line unless it’s very obscure or fantastical, and you don’t want to talk about ASSumptions then act like an ASShole, you’re bigger then that.
Play nice, you are hanging out with me and my family in the mudflats… don’t you have manners?
I really do see that i stirred your pot lovely. It was chicken stew wasn’t it?
You need more hugs, here!
DeMo,
I do agree, I believe my reasoning is superior… to that of the average elf anyway. I find people who surround themselves with those who spot the same opinions (commonly known as yesmen) often have a horribly crippled view of the situation.
As long as someone uses logics and information to come to their conclusions, I admire the process. I do often discount the logic of people who differ in opinion, because it falls back to the logic process they’ve used (or sometimes the lack thereof. So far, I haven’t heard much logic in people’s selection of Obama. Not that I’ve heard much more in that of McCain. But then again, I think most of the country is in this bind: 300 million people in this country, and THOSE are the two viable options we get?
I asked my father (obviously a little older than I), a lifelong Republican, if this has been the frustration of voters on a regular basis, and he replied “yes”. I then asked him was there ever a time when he was 100% sure that the candidate he was going to vote for was the right man for the job… his response… “Yes, JFK”.
My point: If we want REAL change, not what we hear from the two boobs running for office, is to look outside of Washington, not inside it to fix it. These two are already part of the problems we face, either as indiduals or a country.
I am not part of counter-culture, just not part of either major party. 1/3 of Americans are not Democrat or Republican… which still gives me hope. I’ve voted both Dem and Repub at all levels, including president, but not always. In ’04, I went 3rd party, as my state was guaranteed for one candidate, so since my vote wouldn’t matter, I opted to give it some value, by keeping this 3rd party on the ballot for ’08.
OMG I have to run and I know I have typos because I am really busy.
SMR I would love to have dinner with the Mudflatters. Don’t get me organizing?
If I hadn’t found this blog and my mudflat family ( I was the adopted out child they hid from you guys) on that long weekend after the nomination I may have done something rash.
DeMo You ROCK too!
Ms. PALIN…
Sarah Palin is a sick reminder of what lengths some in this country will go to. John McCain’s utter lack of regard for his country exhibited by his choosing this moron is evident every time she opens her babbling mouth. “Take the fight to Iraq…so they’ll never do what they did on 9/11”. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11…Miss Caribou!!!
Meanwhile, the U.S and Pakistan are exchanging gunfire today. Will the Bush doctrine bite us in the ass one last time before he heads into the history books?
I love your zeal for life. your passion is obvious. I only wish you had the same zeal for human life.
Fun but dead on. I’m sure many have already seen it, but it’s good work.
http://www.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_some_campaignin
No feeding the Druids, or the trolls.
This comment is to the commentators: It is heartwarming to see your passion and keen analyses of the issues in this “marathon” race. Your perspective, as residents of Alaska, is INVALUABLE!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
Are you seriously calling “The National Enquirer” credible?
I think that when Friday a.m. comes, the dust will have settled on the “bail-out” and it will be a done deal. Then, then…… McCain will say “I was instrumental in bringing this about by my suspension of my campaign and threat to not debate the democratic candidate if the deal wasn’t done by Friday a.m. It’s because of my leadership that the end to this crisis of uncertainty has come about.”
Mudflats url is listed on todays adn’s Alaska Newsreader, and there are a good number of comments on the Muthee video. Other news blogs are picking it up as well. Good Job Muckraker!
As I type, Sarah is on tv with Katie Couric, OMG, did she make an ass of herself or what!
OMG,
I am going to be sick!…I remember paying hooky from school and watching daytime TV. I was totally appalled and obsessed with the 700 show.
I was a teenager at the time…but I thought, this can’t be for real.
Make a way my God and send these people back to their psyches!
NOTICE.
PLEASE don’t feed trolls or the ELVES…they have a superiority complex and will not be swayed.
Strange times deserve a lookin at strange art..H Bosch anyone?
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bosch/bosch.html
I am truly pissed off at these “end of days” people. They are so jaded in that they have no hope for LIFE. It pisses me off…it also makes me sad. How can anyone be so hopeless that they demand a GOD dictatorship in order to survive or to be saved? I hope that god is better then that. Isn’t this Pentecostal ideology worse than communism?
Sarah Palin’s pastor blames Jews for economic meltdown then heals Sarah Palin : VIDEO…
An Alaskan on the video:
We have not seen the last of the witch hunter. We know Pastor Thomas Muthee was back in Wasilla this past weekend, and I posted a link previously of Sarah Palin recounting th……
You’ve got to see this…
There seems to be a theme of territorial destiny in Bishop Muthee’s (Palin’s) religion:
Transformations: A Documentary Trailer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBvxWl7jXr0& (Bishop Muthee appears at 3:48);
Transformations II: The Glory Spreads, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BMQm_XY6FQ&feature=related; An Unconventional War (sort of a holy war), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vs7If5Mrx8; Ironically, this page from Bishop Muthee’s Word of Faith website, http://www.wofchurchke.org/strategy.php, sort of describes activities that could be called “community organizing”: “We are already constructing a community center to train school dropouts in catering, hairdressing, metalwork and dressmaking and fashion design. Our water drilling project is now also based at this center…A Health Clinic that will incorporate a drug rehabilitation center.” I can’t begin to imagine what’s appropriate in far away communities that are ravaged by desperate poverty, severe climate, tribalism, corruption and superstition, but I certainly don’t see how this has a place anywhere near American government. Witchcraft is still currently used as an excuse to maim and murder women in some countries. Add this manifesto of ordained destiny to Sarah and Todd Palin’s connections with the Alaska Secession movement and you come up with one crazy scary cocktail.
I couldn’t bring myself to watch the whole thing, so I’ll just say this:
In the opening minutes of his sermon, Muthee quotes the Bible and tells his followers that God wants to “penetrate our society economically”.
I guess he didn’t read the part of the Bible where, in reference to whether it’s a sin to pay/not pay taxes, Jesus holds a coin and asks whose face is on it. “Caesars” is the response he gets, to which he replies “Then give to God what is Gods and to Caesar what is Caesars”.
It’s a shame that Conservative politicians and pundits use Christianity to further propagate their very UN-Christian agenda
Governor Palin is full of surprises, isn’t she? The McCane crew must be sleep deprived by now.
He came to pray over Sarah so she will get in the White House. She’s happy he is there to help her because she believes he helped her become The Governor. I wonder how many witches they have to kill to make sure she gets in the White House? If women’s dead bodies turn up, look for Muthee and Todd.
What leaves me feeling afraid is the fact that many people will see the video and “praise God” that someone like Palin is so close to the presidency. I grew up in the Assemblies of God denomination and seeing the video brought it all back… these people see everything as spiritual warfare. They have such a warped view of reality; based mostly on fear. My family of origin thinks she is an answer to prayer. I just hope the non-whackos out number the whackos.
DeMo & EnoughAlready —
I like your posts! I already had my day in the sun with loudelf on a different thread, and I am quite happy to hand it over to you both because you have done such a great job!
If loudelf is lurking I want him to know that I appreciate the fact that his opinions, controversial (on this blog) & high-handed though they may be, have brought some great posts to the table, so thank you! But, as several of us here have mentioned (myself included in that) — we play nice here. When we disagree or agree to disagree we are civil & NOT condescending or rude. Lots of people have apologized to others here & that has opened up some great lines of communication. The comments on many other sites, cnn/post/times/etc, even (or especially?) the local Anchorage Daily News, are hateful & not anything I want to read or have taking up my grey matter. That’s why I’m here, and I think it’s the same for the majority of us.
[…] provides us with video of Pastor Muthee, who prayed over Sarah before she became […]
This is not Sarah Palin’s church.
This is not Sarah Palin’s pastor.
Howard Dean sends thirty lawyers to Alaska to dig up some dirt and this old video is the best they can come up with?
SMR,
I’m not sure to which “day in the sun” you’re referring, but if it makes you feel good, enjoy it.
But please don’t spout the BS of “playing nice”. You’re only nice to those who agree with your slanted views. I’ve been called names, although I have yet to do so. Because of my pointing out the fact that people had huge holes in their arguments, or that they were being hypocritical, some offered that I be blocked. I had one try to pretend that they were of some higher class than I by claiming they employed people like me (not sure if this person has a clue what my background is). If you want to look at hateful, look at a large majority of comments towards Palin on this blog, and some towards those who disagree with the diatribe along with it… and don’t point the finger at me, or try to pretend it doesn’t happen here.
But you’re probably right. It doesn’t sound like you enjoy free thought or exchange of ideas here. It sounds more like you want a support group where no one will ever correct you, no matter how factually incorrect or hypocritical you are. You’d like to be part of the one-body all saying the same thing, and in this case, unified in your hatred of one person.
Ignorance gets under my skin. Ignorance does not equate to stupidity as most would think — it’s the process of IGNORing the information. If someone presents something factual and well-thought, I always show respect. I just haven’t seen much of that here.
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[…] are we talking about the same person? Palin has gotten away with a lot. Her witch hunter is a lot crazier than Wright, but hasn’t been in the news a quarter as much. She has exposed virtually a total ignorance […]