Bedtime in Alaska – Open Thread

14 11 2008

“We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
– Carlos Castaneda

Good night, Mudflatters. And welcome to those around the globe who have the sun on their side.

Tomorrow is another day of ballot counting here, and hopefully it will get us a little closer to having a Democrat in Alaska’s congressional delegation! Send good thoughts.


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287 responses

14 11 2008
Emjay

So far the results are very encouraging. Keep thinking good thoughts.

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

Hope so…still holding thumbs !

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

Go BEGICH!!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Hey I am here too now.

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

Hi Jamie and the rest of the “night kitchen.”
I too have no idea of what an audible is. But then I was flummoxed by “fungible commodities.” Also. 🙂

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

fungible commodities? WTF?

I am always surprised at all those big, fancy, new words she apparently makes up, nouns that become verbs, verbs that become nouns, adjectives that become both verbs and nouns. Wow! Wish I had studied journalism at the U of Idaho!

14 11 2008
Steph in KS

Continued from the previous thread:

Down’s Syndrome is much more common in births of women over 40. The odds of Bristol having a child with Down’s Syndrome is remote, at best.

That said, there are a few things that don’t add up. Like not telling Willow that Trig was going to have Down’s. She has stated that she never told the kids until, “Willow noticed the Down’s features and she told her.” Why did Willow notice this first and not Bristol? Also, she said she had prenatal testing, but never mentioned Trigs DS until after he was born, and “hid” the pregnancy. That was odd…she was a married mother of four at the time…why hide the pregnancy OR the prenatal diagnosis?

So I honestly do believe that Trig’s DS was a surprise. Which leads back to…it is more unusual for a teenager to have a DS child than a woman over 40. Trig’s DS was an absolute and complete shock. It shouldn’t have been, if she knew ahead of time and had been tested.

Add to this that she is at work two days later, apparently right back in shape. She is 44, not 20. Even an easy birth (and since she ended up being induced, my guess it was not a piece of cake) is exhausting. It would take longer than that just to get rest and used to a newborn.

We will probably never know, unless the Desperate Housewives storyline continues and Bristol comes back to claim her son…

14 11 2008
SC Sista M Cluckhead

Irish–
An “audible” is often a football term (American football, mind you) where a certain play has already been called, but the quarterback looks around and decides that something else will work better. So she calls (literally!) a new play and that adjustment is known as an “audible”

so glad I could be of help-I hope
because very soon I must go shower and get off to work!

14 11 2008
austintx

Is there a such thing as “mad moose disease” ?? The Palins eat so much moose that the law of averages sez they might catch it ……..besides the fact that she is not taking her meds……..

14 11 2008
Ferdinand

This is one sick, sick bitch.

FERD

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

B-) (just testing)

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

Oh…that did not work.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Steph in KS:

Good points. I was back at work (part time though on my feet all day) 2 weeks after the birth of my second son – I was 30. Though I couldn’t stand up for the first week or I would get dizzy. But I tell you, a 44 year old woman would have looked a heck of a lot more preggers than Palin did before the birth and would never ever have slimmed down that fast after the birth even if she didn’t breastfeed. Padding makes the tummy look big, but most women can spot a pregnant woman a mile away even before the tummy really shows cause they get thicker in the chest, shoulders and face. Palin never for one minute looked or acted pregnant (photos of her sitting at a group interview when she was supposedly 8 months preggers shows her LEANING FORWARD the entire time, now who can do that 7 or 8 months pregnant?)

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@ austintx (02:27:16) :

Is there a such thing as “mad moose disease” ??

Seriously, I’ll ask my mad-cow-disease-expert hubby. Though he may just call her a crazy American

14 11 2008
Steph in KS

Have y’all noticed that Bush’s Press Secretary also has a very strange and fast cadence also? When she really gets lying, also, her speech is so fast that I have to actually think also because it just gets faster and faster the more she lies also.

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

@SC Sista,
Thanks for the explanation.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Who’s the Bush Press Secretary? That blond?

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Irishgirl – sorry if I have already asked, but where are you?

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

They have something similar to mad cow disease in deer, so it is possible that moose could carry it. I won’t eat “wild” venison for that very reason. Well, and because none of us hunts. Caribou is probably a more likely candidate, though. And we know she eats caribou. She got the moose for the stew she fed Plastic face Gretchen from her dad’s freezer.

Do they have a family dog? Just wondering because I don’t understand how anyone who has a pet dog could shoot a wolf for no good reason.

14 11 2008
SC Sista M Cluckhead

Steph–
You gave me a good laugh, which is rare this early in the morning. Also a great idea: we need to invite SP to a poker game. With all those obvious tipoffs of hers (like, if her mouth is moving, she’s LYING) we could clean up pretty good!

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

Yes, that blonde. Dana Perrino.

14 11 2008
biglake

As I understand ‘fungible commodities’…..
these are goods that are equivalent in value.
For example – oil is fungible in the global market. It makes no difference whether that oil originated in Alaska or Nigeria.

And now I have to go for a walk and clear my brain.

14 11 2008
biglake

As I understand ‘fungible commodities’…..
these are goods that are equivalent in value.
For example – oil is fungible in the global market. It makes no difference whether that oil originated in Alaska or Nigeria.

And now I have to go for a walk and clear my brain.

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

Morning Jamie, morning all!

Gray and drizzly here in Maine as the light works it’s way into my head. Ugg.

You asked yesterday Jamie what school… It was the big H on the north side of the Charles. Pretty distant memory at this point, but a good education, good connections, and always good for a raised eyebrow, particularly away from the East Coast. In AK most times when someone asked I’d say Boston.

Oh the baby thing. If only she would just release her Actual Medical Records, all this would stop. I’m pretty sick of it. It is distasteful.

Count well, all you souls up there in the Northcountry!

14 11 2008
austintx

Steph in KS – yes – same with that McLoser surrogate Nancy Pf…. It must be in the handbook…….”if you can’t dazzle with brilliance – baffle with bullshit”

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

Aero,
The letter she released had a whole paragraph about Trig. She released the letter the morning of the election. I am split on whether Trig is Sarah’s or Bristol’s….it could go either way.

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

Nancy Pfotenhauer is probably gone for good. Banished! When McPalin lost the election, I think was put back in the tupperware container until the GOP needs her again.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@ Aeroentropy (02:42:29) :

Ah, to have gone to a widely recognizable Ivy – I went to U of P – though I do remember beating you guys at our homecoming football game my first year there! And yes, all these decades later it does serve as cocktail party conversation, though not in France.

Thanks biglake.

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

It’s getting harder and harder to read the posts with everyone sounding like her. I do believe I now hate the word also.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@ Aeroentropy (02:42:29) :

Morning Jamie, morning all!

Gray and drizzly here in Maine as the light works it’s way into my head. Ugg.

Does it make you feel any better if I tell you that it is also gray and drizzly in France?

14 11 2008
austintx

Nancy P’s husband is the president of the Mortgage Bankers of America………he was on the stage when that lady tried to cuff Rove at their convention…….I wish she would have TASERED his ass!!! that would have been funny……….

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

Steph –

The letter was just that, a letter. My comment at the time was that I have written more extensive and complete letters about pre-purchase exams in my veterinary career. I’m roughly the same age as SWWNBN, and and have been outrageously healthy, but a 2 page letter would still be “woefully inadequate” (sorry, family joke…) to disclose my full medical history.

If there’s nothing to hide, don’t hide it. If there is, stop whining. And if there is, get the heck out of the public spotlight.

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

Though, also, if I recall correctly, if indeed Trig is not hers, and really I hate to, you know even well — the physician who wrote the letter might have some explaining to do. Also.

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

Ouch, that hurt.

14 11 2008
austintx

Aero – the M.I.A. Dr. was appointed to a state board by Sarah……..explaining indeed……..

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

The doctor who wrote the letter was very lucky that Palin lost. Although all Obama released was a synopsis of his medical records. Not a letter, exactly, but I remember it listed that he had a few respiratory infections and was a smoker, but was in otherwise good health. I don’t really worry as much about full medical records being released for a 44 and a 47 year old as I do about the older guys on both tickets who have had brushes with death.

If McCain dies (not that I want him to) in the next four years, there will be a collective sigh of relief that he was not elected.

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

Steph –

“If McCain dies (not that I want him to) in the next four years, there will be a collective sigh of relief that he was not elected.”
__________
ditto, and ditto.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I think that the letter in lieu of medical records was “woefully inadequate” and highly disrespectful considering all of the questions swirling around her, just another snub.

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

…I must confess, I was never on Hillary’s side. I would have loved a woman, but not her….I do not know why, there was just something, dunno.

Now I look at the pres elect and all seems as though it was ‘written’, it was always meant to be.

*blush* I am besotted with the new first family …USA you done well.
Congrats.
😳

14 11 2008
Mollys Mum

@ Jamie, Floridian in France

Jamie, my husband is a UP grad. Also. GRIN. When were you there? He graduated in ’70, I think.

As for Trig, are birth records in AK closed or something? This could be cleared up SO easily with a birth certificate. One small piece of paper. Isn’t there any way someone could get hold of it? The whole WORLD has seen Barack Obama’s birth certificate a hundred times over. I am just so puzzled about this.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I hope that I never have to suffer through one of those lying, grinning, toothy Stepford Wife Republican women on Larry King ever again. I even think that Larry actually got fed up and frustrated with their lies, distortions and their constantly spewing the same, tired talking points that had been debunked over and over again by the MSM.

The day after the election, I actually saw the first fairly honest, sensible Republican woman on Larry King telling the truth and making sense. Where was she during the campaign?

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

@Jamie,
I am in Dublin.
@ Biglake,
Thank you.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Mollys Mum:

I transferred to UP in January 81 and was there for 3 years – BA in Psych, minor Art History. Go Quakers!

As for Trig’s birth info – what I read was that all birth’s at that hospital (Mat-Su) are registered and on-line. When a search for Trig’s was done, nothing was found!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Irishgirl-

I reserve the right as a mudpuppy to come visit you in Dublin one day! Direct flights on RyanAir from Nantes!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Man oh Man, Zim, I jus barely mastered BOLD and SMILE🙂 and you do the little blush face?! How in the hooey?…

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

And yes, Zim, we are also besotted by the amazing new First Family.

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

LOL…Jamie…I am Zimbabwean, computer idiot and still VERY impressed with the telephone and will never understand the radio, let alone TV. LOL

Tonight I did some playing…and found this. I feel liberated
{http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies}
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Zim :

FAB! I just went to the Smilies link and it is now on my favorites bar😆

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

8-0

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Didn’t work😯

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

Jamie, you are more than welcome! Ryanair is great.
I drove though Nantes about 10 years ago – we spent a couple of family holidays around that area. It is a beautiful part of the world.🙂

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

mornin kids..

being the daddy of a 6mo puppy is a pain.. he has the weirdest schedule.. 7:30 and he’s in play mode, so i’m officially awake..!

All the newest Trig talk is always entertaining.

Part of the ‘Sociopath Palin’ is the inate ability to be a ‘pathological liar’ without any problem or complex associated with lying. Some can’t lie at all, others do it with flair, others, like Barbie, do it without a concern at all. The words just flow out of her mouth and even though it’s very easy for her to lie, you can see/hear the ‘tells’ in her lies. Rapid eye blinkng, avoiding looking at the questioner, starting responses with the same question, giving her an extra few seconds to develop the lie in her head before saying it out loud.

She knows all the questions about all her ‘issues’.. Be it Troopergate, Housegate, Per Diemgate, Babygate, it’s all irrevelevant to her. Sociopaths only see one beam of light in the rainbow. She compulsively follows that path unquestionably, and can’t even see the other colors, she’s so obsessed with her narrow view.

In many ways, she doesn’t totally believe she lies when she does. It’s somewhat of a defense mechanism, although in other ways, she knows she’s fudging the truth, it just doesn’t take up much space in the reasoning centers of the brain.

In her view, the ‘doctor’s note’ WAS the only response needed, even if that cleared up nothing, she sees the case as closed, and is not sure why people don’t considered the matter closed, because SHE does, really think it’s closed.

She has so many signs of sociopathic disorder, an entire paper could be written on subject code name B. Grifter.

14 11 2008
Frank LI,NY

I said it before, and I will say it again. The night of SP’s coming out party, when Levi bent down, and kissed Trig on the head. That was not as kiss from a future brother in law. That was a kiss from daddy’s heart….. Sorry, he is NOT the son of sp.

14 11 2008
RLS

I am not sure how far Sarah wants to push the idea of calling an “audible”. She wants it to mean remaining flexible, with the ability to change your plans at the last moment based on the observed circumstances, but in football the audible is actually a coded word or phrase so only half the players on the field (your offense) know that you have changed the play. You are trying to keep the defense in the dark. That seems to be what is happening with the bailout, as Paulson seems to have changed the play and has not informed congress (the defense, perhaps) what the hell he is doing. Not sure that is really a good idea, or maybe that is exactly what Sarah means when she uses the phrase.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Bailout= Paulson-Bush Retirement Plan.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Frank, i have to agree. That kiss on the forehead was just too gentle for a kid that belonged to a future mother in law. And Bristol held him far more maternally than Barbie EVER did. Barbie needed a prop, and he was an easy choice. Get the ‘aww, isn’t she a good mommy’ votes..

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

Zim,
Thanks for the smilies link. It is 8).

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

That didn’t work! Will try again.😎

14 11 2008
katek formerly cd

Morning:

I’m sure this was on the other thread, but I had to get offline last night because my husband keeps saying “the election is over!” Well, it’s not in AK and we watched Begich on Rachel’s show and were just amazed. How he can stay so calm and as he said “cautiously optimistic” is astounding.

Hope more votes come in for him today.

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

You know, Palin keeps saying, “My life is in God’s hands.”.
I imagine one day it went something like this:

God was walking down the path pondering all She had created when suddenly it dawned on her and thus it came to Her and She declared, “Ah yes! Let there be Voters!”

Perspective.

14 11 2008
Lynn-in-Australia

To Steph in KS:
In Australia, according to gov. stats, 2007, teenage mothers have a 9.1% chance of having a baby with Downs Syndrome. That statistic actually took me by surprise. However, a good friend of mine works within the school system on the Gold Coast and she says there are enough young women having babies with DS (and other birth defects) to warrant govt. funded support groups.

There were photos of Sarah with a previous pregnancy, in which she was clearly 30-40 lbs heavier than normal. It’s funny, how each pregnancy can be different yet your body responds to hormonal changes in pretty much the same way with each one. I was always skinny, for example, but I consistently gained weight with each of four pregnancies, regardless of how careful I was with diet and exercise. And Ihad both boys andgirls. So I find it difficult to see her very heavy during one pregnancy and very slim during the last.

The last pregnancy, logically, would be the most difficult as your body has been stretched and stretched and stretched again, each time losing a bit more muscle tone, making it progressively more difficult to ‘bounce back’.

This is just conjecture, I realize, and I make no accusations. It is odd, though, that of all the things Sarah’s doctor could say in a two-page summary, about a woman who has undergone five live births, suffered broken bones while on a fishing trawler, and all the other things that must have happened to Sarah in her lifetime of living in a wilderness environment – that she took the time to mention how Sarah ‘exercised’ as if that were the dismissive wave of the hand to assuage any suspicions about Trig not being Sarah’s son.

She didn’t gain weight during her last pregnancy because she exercised. Odd.

On a different note, this was a good news day. I’ve just been to the home pages of the Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, msnbc, abcnews, cbsnews and other than one small link to Sarah’s last news conference in Miami on the msnbc site, Sarah Palin’s name didn’t appear on any title or menu bar, anywhere. Not even in the most read or most popular articles.

She’s sliding off the radar. Good news day indeed🙂

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Ah, Marty, always great to have you join us. I love your long, funny, informative, thought-provoking posts.

My ex-business partner was like SP – what I realized is that because she considered most everybody beneath her (the poor, stupid little people) she just assumed that we believed everything that came out from between her lips. And she most likely thought that it was the best thing for us, those lies, it protected us, it taught us. The time she came to me and showed me the press kit she had worked on for 2 months with our PR people, telling me over and over again exactly how it would be, and I saw that my name was nowhere to be found – she kindly explained that “I’m only thinking of you, dear! Having my name all over means absolutely nothing to me! I am just protecting YOU from any possible future problems with the tax people!” And she most likely had convinced herself that it was true! They need to really believe that all of their lies are the truth.

14 11 2008
womanwithsardinecan

Continuing a theme from the last thread, I DON’T feel sorry for you Alaskans. Alaska voted her in. Alaska continued to vote in Stevens. I feel sorry for liberals in Alaska, except a bunch of them voted for her too. I’m a Californian. Therefore I am used to the love/hate affair with my state. Voters and the direct initiative process have virtually destroyed my state. Who is to blame? All of us, for not paying attention, for not using our brains when big money gets involved in state elections. When a majority of voters can be swayed by immediate, ignorant self interest because they have lost interest in being informed citizens (assuming they EVER had any interest), then we deserve what we get. What we Californians got was a state that went from being number one to being a borderline Mississippi. Our schools are crap, our roads are crap, our jobs are crap, our ideas are crap, our legislators are crap. The only thing California does well is build prisons. Yay!
So everybody STOP it with the feeling sorry. Alaska did it to herself and the people of Alaska have to step up and fix it.

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

But IF Bristol delivers late Dec/Early Jan, then she isn’t Trig’s mom. The doctor who delivered Trig is no longer practicing, so Bristol’s doctor would not be likely to induce early to cover up for Trig’s birth.

The whole thing is just so weird. The National Enquirer tried like crazy to prove who Trig’s mother was and kept getting both stories…Bristol’s HS friends say she was pregnant last year, but everyone else says he is Sarah’s. They couldn’t find “the item” that proved it either way. Birth certificates are not public record in AK,but there was a notice in the paper saying Sarah & Todd Palin were his parents.

Nothing would shock me, but Sarah is obviously in denial, or just doesn’t think a lot. When asked about running in 2012, she said “Well, I would be enrolling Trig in school and Willow would be in college.” Sorry, Sarah, but Trig won’t be in Kindergarten and your track record for kids in college is 0-2. Not saying Willow won’t, but…

14 11 2008
Ripley in CT

Happy Birthday to me!

14 11 2008
austintx

With all these “—gates”……..her life is gonna be in a juries “hands”

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Jamie, Floridian in France (02:19:10) :

AHA… “The Night Kitchen” lives🙂 and

ahem… and now for “a teaching moment”… hopefully not at risk of friendship…

.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

“Examples of highly fungible commodities are crude oil, precious metals, and currencies.
“Fungibility has nothing to do with the ability to exchange one commodity for another. It has everything to do with exchanging one unit of a commodity with another unit of the same commodity.”

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

California is good at spreading HATE CRAP that is offered up by the Mormon Church.
I’m just sayin.

See you at the protests!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@ Lynn-in-Australia (03:55:12) :

Yes! I commented on it above. Any woman who has had children can look at photos of her before and after and know that she could not have been pregnant. She was way too slim way too fast. Not even talking about those obviously unpregnant photos of her in Feb and March.

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

How is your first Birthday after a President Obama win?
YAY!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RIPLEY! So glad to see that you have decided to spend your bday with us!

@irishgirl:
Thanks for letting me invite myself. We aren’t really that far.

@ megacephalus (03:59:48) :
Yes, thank you for the “teaching moment”. That’s why we ask questions!

@Whabs:
I hate to say it, but a lot of states are good at hate crap – just think, Florida also voted in a “Marriage Protection” Act – and we already had one!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Jamie, Floridian in France (02:32:40) :

“mad-cow-disease” has a rather nice pejorative context in English English…

as does “mad”

SP IS a “mad cow”

Brit Abroad: comment please!

maybe instead of SWWNBN we can refer to her henceforth as MadCow

14 11 2008
Steph in KS also

Or MadMoose

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

wouldn’t it be MadMoose Disease in Alaska?🙂

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Hey Steph, get outta my head..🙂

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

lol, I know jamie,
Which is why I’ll be in the streets tomorrow, WITH my 66 year old gay mother and a whole bunch of other people.

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Aeroentropy (02:42:29) :

as long time Architect in PWM and PenBay sailor, may I ask where in ME?

14 11 2008
Susie in Jersey

@Steph in Kansas:

But IF Bristol delivers late Dec/Early Jan, then she isn’t Trig’s mom.

~~

Not necessarily. I’ve know people who have had babies 9 months apart – both young teenagers who gave birth and immediately resumed having sex again. Voila! Another baby when first baby is 9 mos. old.

14 11 2008
Zim in Oz

It is 12.06…past midnight here in Melbourne, Aus.

Time to hit the hay…it is late..Nite nite all…it has neen fun.

Cya tomorrow, same time same place.
Europe and USA …it is your watch *passes the torch*

14 11 2008
Ripley in CT

It’s the best birthday YET!!! there are so many gifts out there because of his win. He gave me hope.

Best gift so far? CT gave me the right to marry last week. Now I just need to find me a suitable spouse!!! LOL

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Ah, yes, megacephalus, Mad Cow indeed!

And good for you and Mom, Whabs! Take and post photos.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Ripley in CT

LOL Go get ’em!

14 11 2008
Ripley in CT

Thanks for the birthday wishes.. I”m at work so I’ll check back in occasionally….

Peace out.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Jamie, i completely agree.

There’s no way Barbie wasn’t pregnant looking, then went into labor.

There are cases of that happening, where everyone was shocked, but there was also a trail of hospitals, photos and legit proof of the happy or not so happy, depending on if/who wanted the baby, to satisfy all questioners.

In Barbie Grifters case, isn’t it odd there aren’t photos of the happy mom/baby in the hospital? Isn’t it odd there isn’t the obligatory nursery photo? Isn’t it odd there’s no first dud photo in a gown holding his newborn baby? Who ever heard of having a baby in 2008 without loads of digital photos/cell phone photos/video of newborns?

The whole situation is ludicrous. And as you said, a woman ‘looks’ pregnant, even if she doesn’t gain 30-40-50 lbs.. The face gets puffier, boobs certainly get bigger, by design, baby fat is called that for a reason..

She’s lying, the whole world knows she’s lying, it’s just a matter of what the truth really is.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Nite Nite Zim. See ya later or tomorrow!

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Susie, doesn’t your body need a month or two to recover before getting preg again? I thought the trigger to restart the process to conceive took a month or 2 to protect the mom after childbirth. I guess there are exceptions, but that was always my understanding of reproductive systems 101..🙂

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Marty,

I certainly hope that we get to the bottom of this. It is all weird. No one is talking either as a witness for one or the other. Already the fact that Bristol had disappeared for 5 months just when Mommy Dearest happened to be pregnant! And it is just not possible in this world that NO ONE at work could tell that Sarah was preggers! In this day and age, how is it that NOBODY has come forward to grab their 15 minutes of fame and spill the beans?

I know that for Trig’s sake it isn’t really good that all this gets dragged through the dirt, but if she was honest about any of it from the beginning, or had shown proof, well, we would have just carried on. It’s the liars we hate!

14 11 2008
MCinVA
14 11 2008
Frank LI,NY

As soon as one of the gate lawyers knocks on Sarah’s door. Grandma II is gonna spill the beans. You betcha!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Marty – I think that a lot of people accidentally get pregnant again very quickly because they believe all the old wives’ tales – can’t get preggers right away, can’t get preggers while you are breast feeding, stuff like that. I think that it can happen.

And how far along was Bristol during the convention? 5 Months? My neighbor is 4 months along and is the same size. Looked that way just after they told us when she was 3 months along. She is a built like Bristol.

14 11 2008
austintx

You may recall a long time ago – Oprah was unsuccessfully sued by the cattle industry for something she said on her show about eating beef and madcow disease……..the “Beef Council” had bumper stickers that said “The only mad cow is Oprah” Mean ……..but kind of funny………

14 11 2008
Susie in Jersey

Marty,

Apparently not. I know this from working at a hospital in the maternity ward and in one day having two older teens deliver 2nd babies. Each had a 9-month old at home.

14 11 2008
shoeho

LOL, LOVE the MadMoose/Madcow debate. I must admit, “What a cow!” comes to mind when I see SP speaking–way to often right now as she is only a few miles away in MIA!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Steph in KS also (04:08:00) :

no, rather MadCow … we’ll let BritAbroad explain what the English meanings of “cow” are… I’d fear expulsion from this predominantly female world!😉

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Jamie i agree totally..

And Barbie must have some really, REALLY strong hold over her minions to prevent EVERYONE from talking. Rags like the Enquirer have really deep pockets and unlike MSM, they are willing to pay for dirt. The fact they’ve tried and failed to come up with the truth to their low standards is even more curious.

Regardless if Bristol is or isn’t mommy, you’d think there are friends of hers that know absolutely if he’s her kid or not and even if she’s not mommy, that would be enough to solve the mystery. Of course, that may not be the salacious answer the Enquirer wants, so if they got that, maybe they’d just trash the story.

but i agree barbie is to blame, even without a birth cert, one photo in a hospital bed with Trig would have closed the entire matter. If she’s momma, how could there not be one stinkin photo? That’s simply impossible.

14 11 2008
shoeho

MC in VA–I could only read about half of it, I was afraid I would choke on my coffee. I had already snarked it on the monitor a few times. He says about what I have been thinking since election night.

14 11 2008
Jan (SW Washington)

Morning Joe is saying very strongly that SP should go home and be silent. There are no Palin fans on there right now. Even Pat is a bit quiet on the topic. Mika’s struggling to try to be “fair,” but what is not being said came through loud and clear.

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

megacephalus (04:09:35) :

Pownal. Go to LL Bean’s (or the BFI) and take a left.

14 11 2008
shoeho

I’ll post it. I use it often as in America it’s not seen to be as rude as bitch. But it kind of is. I went to school in Britain for a few years, so I am bilingual in insults!

COW– A contemptible woman, a ‘bitch’. Derogatory, but often used less aggressively, as an affectionate aside, as in ‘silly cow’, see also ‘moo’.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Mika’s got the Hillary hunt..

Who likes her as SoS? I think it’s a decent choice. Solves all sorts of ‘what does obama do with hillary’ questions and i think she’d be good at it. she’s got the right type A personality and is fairly well respected in the US and abroad..

14 11 2008
shoeho

Jan in SW Washington–Jeez, Joe finally said something I agree with!

14 11 2008
Susie in Jersey

AKM, talk about serendipity! Your quote from Carlos Castaneda came at a very opportune moment as I’ve been trying to recall either his name or the title of one of his books that I’d read years ago – and I couldn’t come up with either!

Thank you.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I will stand megacephalus – Just watch a few episodes of Absolutely Fabulous and you will understand “Cow”.

Marty – and Sarah and Todd’s parents? I am actually hoping that now that she has lost the election and with it some of her power and her gilding, maybe now someone will talk. Maybe she was promising them all cabinet posts if they kept quiet.

14 11 2008
shoeho

Marty in VA–yeah, I agree that the Enquirer probably didn’t get the story they wanted, or they couldn’t get enough (even for THEM) either way to run with it.

They did get the Bristol is currently preggers story pretty fast, though. No one (including her freakin’ MOTHER) had any compunction about tossing her under the bus. I have to wonder if the bloggesphere hadn’t erupted with the who’s Trig’s Mom’s story if we’d have gotten Bristol in heavy coats or “she’s back at boarding school” stories instead of the truth.

14 11 2008
Whabs, Seattle, WA.

Right, you can’t get pregnant while nursing, and pulling out works.

**sigh**

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I saw that – Hillary being considered as Sec of State. She does have the experience, I guess. But what would Bill R. say?

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@ Whabs, Seattle, WA.

Add abstinence to that list!

14 11 2008
Susie in Jersey

Back to an old topic – last night I finally saw video of SP at the gov’s conference and it was so easy to tell that she no longer has the services of a make-up artists – she looked tired and worn.

14 11 2008
shoeho

Jamie–I wonder (and this is just my tired little mind working) if giving SoS to Hillz doesn’t solve a BIG problem for BHO.

John Kerry and Bill Richardson both want it. They came out and supported his campaign fairly early. They are both really equally qualified.

If he gives it to Hillz instead (who, imho, is equally qualified) he can go with the “Guys, I really felt the need to do this to make sure we unite the party. She ran a great campaign against me, we agree on most foreign policy issues, and her experience (and even Bill) could be an asset in this.”

Richard Lugar is another possibility but if he keeps Gates at DOD, he’s not going to give the two most important Cabinet spots to R’s, so that would be out.

14 11 2008
shoeho

Susie in Jersey–I just didn’t want to be the one to bring it up, lol!

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Think it’s time for a no-holds-barred cage match..

Toss Hillary, Richardson and Kerry in the cage.. whoever comes out alive gets SoS.. ! 🙂

I’d still bet on hillary..

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

steph in KS
Do they have a family dog? Just wondering because I don’t understand how anyone who has a pet dog could shoot a wolf for no good reason.

*****

I don’t think they have any dogs – if they do, I’m sure they’re staked outside 365/24/7 . . . I can’t imagine her having any pets whatsoever.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

They’ve had camera crews at their house and no pets seen or mentioned. I aggree Grammy, they don’t seem like pet-lover types. Pretty sure in their world, anything on 4 legs deserves to die and eaten.

14 11 2008
SMG - MN

Ripley in CT (03:59:30) :

Happy Birthday!!!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Aeroentropy (04:28:46) :

…and could it possibly be you’d be the same DVM who’d know of a boat called RAVEN, and McMahan Is. and have a mother who ended up with me on her solicitation list for BHO?

14 11 2008
SMG - MN

Regarding the recent Palin infomercials/interviews….

Every time she twists Couric’s question about her news sources into “what I read up there in Alaska,” I want to scream. Not one of thesejournalists has bothered to point out that Couric asked the identical question of Joe Biden!

14 11 2008
SMG - MN

If the Palins did have a family dog, it would probably be on the wall keeping the moose head company.

14 11 2008
shoeho

Hey Ripley, Happy Birthday! And I am so happy my natal state decided to be the second one to allow gay marriage. I’ve never been able to see how allowing two people who love each other to commit in public in any way diminished anyone else’s right to do the same.

Unfortunately, the state I currently live in (no choice re DH’s job) decided to have an extra ban (gays were already banned from marrying bu law, it just wasn’t in the state constitution) on the ballot and it passed. I was hoping since FL went for BHO it would not get the 60% required, but it did. I didn’t have the heart to look and see how much it passed by. Gotta love bigotry–not.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@shoeho:

I am sure that picking the best person, the most effective person for the job is his priority. He seems less concerned about political fallout, though I could be wrong. He is friends with Rahm Emanuel, both from Chicago, but at the same time, Rahm is definitely considered best for the job. He could have picked Hillary for VP – for political reasons and to appease her and her supporters, but didn’t.

I don’t really want Kerry in that position – he’s a snore! Hillary would be good as she’s known and Bill was so well-loved and respected around the world! And Bill is doing so much through his foundation throughout Africa and the Middle East and working with a lot of the leaders from those parts of the world. We could assume that Hillary would be linked in people’s minds to that.

And Sarah definitely has returned to her former dowdy look!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

shoeho – you in FLA? Land of Anita Bryant?

14 11 2008
Newfoundland Dogs Rule

Good Morning, Mudpuppies!

I think it’s amazing that you guys can pull words out of her speeches and such. I try to listen to what she’s saying or even reading what she said and my brain just goes away. Could well be I’m where those sons of mine got their ADD. Just glad I can read this blog and begin to understand what she may have been saying, sort of.

I liked the comment on her only seeing one light in a rainbow. I think that as a pathological liar and seeing only her “narrow vision” will bring some interesting moments as she puts herself more and more with the media.

I had to do a workshop with a man who had narrow vision. He was no SP, thank goodness. He just couldn’t understand anothers point of view. He even scheduled what he questions people would ask and how to answer them. I kept saying that there could be other questions people could ask. He kept telling me no there wasn’t. Very strange. Made for a very strange workshop. When they started asking those questions he had no answer for he was completely silent.

Not that I think SP is going to go silent. I think she’ll rage at the mouth. Mad Moose (or cow) disease.

Take care

14 11 2008
austintx

Marty – the same thought occured to me about people being cowed (too easy!!) I know a woman who is bi-polar and when she goes off, it is incredible…..the vile,vicious shit that spews is mind boggling……hopefully e-mails and/or voicemails have been saved !!! I really think housegate will be what does the grifter in……

14 11 2008
shoeho

SMG–I think at this point, some of the journalists are starting to regard Sarah as a joke. She’s going to become the female Pat Buchanan of the Repugs.

I remember listening to his speech at the 1992 convention–it convinced me that I would never, ever vote for an R while they had any of the provisions (you can imagine which ones I mean) in their party platform. It bordered on hate speech. IMHO, she’s either going to be a perennial fringe candidate, will go on to have a long and happy life as the female Sean Hannity, or the brunette Anne Coulter/Laura Ingram.

14 11 2008
austintx

The children are the pets………the names are kinda pet like…….

14 11 2008
shoeho

Jamie–well, Anita was a little before my time! We’ve been here for 10 years. It depends (greatly!) on what part of FL you live in. We’re in Martin County which is socially liberal but “Country Club” Repub.

14 11 2008
shoeho

austintx–geez, I didn’t think of that, but you’re RIGHT!

14 11 2008
pupule

One pupule lurker here.
For you mudpupies still lingering on the “babygate” issue, check this out
http://www.palindeception.com/
This investigation is objective, comprehensive, thorough, and ongoing. Once you get on to the site, click on “blog.” Plan on spending a full day just reading!

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

megacephalus (04:52:19) :
@ Aeroentropy (04:28:46) :

…and could it possibly be you’d be the same DVM who’d know of a boat called RAVEN, and McMahan Is. and have a mother who ended up with me on her solicitation list for BHO?
______

Um, er. I guess not. Either that or I’m having a serious senior moment. Sounds like someone I might know though… It’s a smallish community (DVM’s), though not always all that chummy.😉

14 11 2008
Anonymous

The whole Trig thing is weird because Palin made it weird. She hid her pregnancy, reportedly acted irresponsibly after going into labor, scrubbed pictures from her website, refused to release medical records, paraded Bristol and Levi out like circus poodles for the RNC and then hid them completely from sight. In addition she is the most unmotherly mother of a small baby that I’ve ever observed.

But at this point I think I would laud Palin if I found out the child wasn’t hers because that would mean she actually performed an act of unselfishness which at this point I don’t think she is capable of.

But if the child isn’t hers and she decided to claim it as hers as a political prop that wouldn’t even surprise me. Nothing she does surprises me. I agree with Todd Palin who said she is ‘wired’ diffently.

And as for the statistics regarding downs syndrome more prevalent in older women, there is one fact that I found very intersting. They say it’s hard to tell a down’s syndrome baby from a baby suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome.

I guess I’m out of line with these ponderings myself, but I’m a logical person and nothing surrounding Trig from pregnancy to birth is logical.

And if Sarah Palin gave a crap at all stopping scurrelious rumors she would have done more than release a letter from a doctor she herself appointed to a prestigious position. She would have released a birth certificate and medical records.

She is the cause of all the rumors not the victim of them. The victims are her children.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@shoeho:

I think I did ask before. You are from Stuart? Yeah! I grew up in Brevard County which went heavily for McCreeps.

I think that she is biding her time, getting as much coverage as possible and seeing which way the wind blows. If the talking heads don’t get completely sick of her and turned off by her ignorance and stupidity, then her best offer will be a lucrative deal on Fox network. And she’d really be stupid NOT to take it.

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Aeroentropy (05:33:27) :

Stone was a possibility… loved the reference to FBI… made this exile in Berlin homesick!

14 11 2008
Aeroentropy

megacephalus (05:38:30) :

My Pleasure! *wink.*

14 11 2008
Political Amazon

Just woke up to find that Santa Barbara is on fire again.

The area where we used to live is under evacuation. The home was on 8 acres, and the north side of the canyon (Rattlesnake Canyon) had not burned in recorded history. The poison oak growing up the oak trees had “trunks” that were 4″ in diameter. That stuff is very oily.

The area being burned, IMO, is some of the prettiest in SB. We were just 2 miles from State Street (main drag in SB) but it was very rural where we lived.

I’m trying to contact old neighbors, but have not been able to.

This is going to be bad–hell, it’s already bad.

Sigh.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

“But at this point I think I would laud Palin if I found out the child wasn’t hers because that would mean she actually performed an act of unselfishness which at this point I don’t think she is capable of.”

Nah, not possible… if she covered for her daughter or someone else, it was for political gain or to avoid political/religious fallout. And if we think something like this, it is because she has led us to come to these conclusions, showing herself to be so self-absorbed and too politically ambitious.

14 11 2008
turns

SP is campaigning on thin ice. A hockey mom should know about the dangers of playing on thin ice. Ice breaks SP! Your lies are getting heaver, your sales pitch is getting old, the public is getting board, and the truth that you are skating away from, is getting closer to your home.

Please come back to Alaska SP, we have a few simple questions to ask you. All we want is some paper prof about some of your gates. You promised to be as transparent as thin ice……

In fact, we don’t want to here you speak in circles any more. Rest your voice, it must be getting tired by now. Just show us Trigs birth papers, and some details about your new house. Would be nice if you could please provide a time line of the build, contractors used in the construction, and a materials list with invoices for are ethics investigation. I’m sure with your high level of professional skills, you could have one of your people provide the necessary information.

Oh, I almost for got, I’M kind of confused about those troopergate reports……

14 11 2008
shoeho

Yeah, Jamie, that’s where I’m from.

ITA, if she did cover for Bristol, it was because it was best for Sarah. Any “good” that came out of it for anyone else was strictly a side bennie. I’ve got to say, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in some of these conversations.

Had to love the “PR” with Matt Lauer coming over for dinner. Was it just the parts I saw, or were any of the kids who were capable of giving anything but a “cute” answer (ie, the three older ones) all missing? I know the son is off in the Army, but presumably, Bristol and Piper are still around?

14 11 2008
shoeho

Oh, and was it just me, or did it look to anyone else that Rick Perry about had a hook out to drag SP away from the reporters at that “press conference” yesterday–God, was it only YESTERDAY???

14 11 2008
Political Amazon

Thought I’d add this about the SB Fire:

Much of the area under evacuation is on very windy roads, especially the area where we used to live. It happened that the local fire station had an open house right after we moved to our home. They showed us the maps that indicated where every road, house, driveway, etc. is located. We pointed to our house and one of the firefighters said that if a major fire came through the canyon that we should get into the car and go-go-go. They said that we should not expect the firefighters to try to save our house. They would have no problem with the driveway, which was very wide for that area, but the turnaround was to small for them to quickly turn their equipment around in.

The winds freaking ROAR through that canyon at night. We ended up with strange things in our yard in the morning. We found two trashcans from Westmont College (the college that was evacuated), just over the ridge from our home. Once we found a plastic flamingo. Another time a big-wheel tricycle.

14 11 2008
Tired Mom (VA)

Morning Pups! Just checking in real quick … can’t even begin to catch up on posts! got lots work today …. will be lurking though … Gray and drizzly here in Richmond, VA too, also … HAPPY BIRTHDAY Ripley in CT! Good luck on your quest for the spouse!!

*Jamie, confession – in a very weak moment late last night, I ate one of the chocolate covered marshmallow santas! Better get that box in the mail soon 🙂 Promise I will replace before mailing!

14 11 2008
shoeho

Political Amazon–I am of the mind that all areas have their weather related “bad times.”

Y’all have your brushfire and mudslide season. We have hurricanes/droughts–bad ones of each. Up north, they have blizzards. In the midwest, they have blizzards and tornados.

I’ve lived in most regions of the country at one time or another and I don’t honestly know which is worst. Only one I remember not having some sort of really terrible weather was SEA–and that was just depressingly gloomy most of the time. Hope you make it through this one w/o too much hassle.

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

Oh… I had almost forgotten about SP and her mystery birth until I read this thread.

There are just too many things about Trig’s birth that don’t make sense:
1) SP’s surprise announcement, when even her closest advisors didn’t know she was pregnant; she didn’t look pregnant!
2) the fact that she flew to Texas at 8 months, never telling the airline and approved by her doctor?
3) the fact that her doctor is not an OB, but is a family practitioner who specializes in child abuse; wrote an article about the importance of protecting the privacy of victims
4) the fact that SP made a speech and traveled by air and car for 20 hours with no examination AFTER she thought she had amniotic fluid leaking
5) the fact that she didn’t disclose her condition on her flight back to AK coupled with the fact that she hadn’t had an exam, didn’t know if she was dilating and if her baby would be born on an airplane; putting herself in the position of having to publicly give birth to Trig in the aisle of an airplane.
5) SP’s obvious need to get to the Wasilla hospital, passing up opportunities to be, at least, examined in Texas and then in Anchorage; at the very least, she wasn’t concerned about this baby’s health, if she was pregnant.
6) The fact that Bristol went to live with SP’s sister around the holidays, briefly went to school there, then dropped out and didn’t go in the spring.
7) and, most importantly, why didn’t SP just release Trig’s birth certificate when questions arose about Trig’s mother? Why did she shove her 17 year old, unwed, pregnant daughter into the world spotlight? Or, have the doctor or someone from the hospital vouch for her?

Maybe, just maybe, if there was only one, two or even three odd events…well, okay. But, how could there be SO many coincidences and unusual circumstances?

By the way, at the beginning of 2007, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists stated that all women, regardless of age, should be offered the opportunity for screening for Down Syndrome. And, on a personal note, my dear beloved grandmother’s first child, at age 19 had Down Syndrome. She went on to have 5 subsequent children, none of whom had Down Syndrome.

I do think we will know someday. Just don’t know when.

What would be so hard about releasing Trig’s birth certificate?

By the way, on the Wasilla Hospital site, I believe it states that the birth registry is optional.

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

turns, great post!

14 11 2008
Political Amazon

rf11:

The thing about Palin not looking pregnat… I think the most important part of that is that pictures of her during a previous pregnancy, at about 7 months gestation, show her to be as big as a house.

There is no way that she was pregnant with Trig when she announced it. Her abdomen very flat.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Tired Mom🙂

@rf11 : you forgot to add that none of the stewardesses on TWO flights saw that she was 8 months prego and in labor!

SP seems to have a weird relationship with Piper – Piper seems to be the one being groomed to follow in momma’s footsteps. Why is Piper ALWAYS there? At every rally, every speech, these interviews, the hockey game. Maybe she is the only one that hasn’t revolted!

Ok – off to shop for dinner and pick up drycleaning! And play Euromillions!

14 11 2008
Tired Mom (VA)

Jamie, Good luck on the Euromillions

14 11 2008
austintx

Jamie — You are correct in your observation of Piper…….it’s almost……well…..like a loyal pet……..

14 11 2008
Lynn-in-Australia

Found on the blog “The Immoral Minority”

There is an online petition asking Sarah Palin to stop campaigning and go home already. Oh and to stop giving interviews and just – shut up. Anyone can sign it. I am signature #174 and proudly listed “Australia” as my city/state🙂

http://www.petitiononline.com/1113nov8/petition.html

14 11 2008
Newfoundland Dogs Rule

Tired Mom (VA)

Used to live down there near you. Congrats on being BLUE!!! When I was there from 1969 to 1991 where I was, Tappahannock, we went to Richmond to go to the City, one hour away.

Now to go to the CITY, I either have to go to Boston (2.5 hours away) or NYC (3.25 hours away).

Take care in that blue state!

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

@Political Amazon (06:04:26) :
The thing about Palin not looking pregnat… I think the most important part of that is that pictures of her during a previous pregnancy, at about 7 months gestation, show her to be as big as a house.

There is no way that she was pregnant with Trig when she announced it. Her abdomen very flat.

@Tired Mom

@rf11 : you forgot to add that none of the stewardesses on TWO flights saw that she was 8 months prego and in labor!

_____________

You know, that’s exactly the point. How could so many people miss SP’s pregnancy up to her announcement at 7 months, even on the day before she gave birth? I would think that stewardesses are trained to observe passengers in such a way to predict/prevent emergencies during flight. This would certainly include women who are 8 months pregnant.

There are just too many pieces that don’t fit. At this point, I would love to have just one of those stewardesses on the multiple flights that she took back to AK come forward to say, “Oh, yeah. She was pregnant.”

None of it makes sense.

14 11 2008
Polly

“I’m a practical-minded guy. And, you know, one of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln. And a while back there was a wonderful book written by Doris Kearns Goodwin called ‘Team of Rivals.” Lincoln basically pulled in all the people who had been running against him into his Cabinet because whatever personal feelings there were, the issue was how can we get this country through this time of crisis. And I think that has to be the approach that one takes, whether it’s vice president or Cabinet, whoever.”– Barack Obama

(I’m headed to Amazon to get this book. Should be an interesting read.)

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

On Piper, the other two children are older, and likely more independent. Piper is still a baby. (I have a 7 year old, too.)

14 11 2008
BabysDaddy

So, do the Palins live in the wilderness or something?

Seems it should be easy enough to go into the grocery store in the gov’s neighborhood or wherever Bristol shops and talk to some clerks or get a look at the security tape.

People gotta eat, buy gas, baby food, diapers, etc. and since First Dud is camped in the Governor’s Office all the time and Willow and Piper prolly aren’t driving….Voila!!!

There’s the answer!!! Or how about a private investigator…a week later the answer will be known.

Of course it’s very suspicious that noone has done this, yet.
Reminds me of the saying, “The money is in the medecine, not in the cure.”

14 11 2008
Mister X

What difference does it make who Trig’s mom is?

The good news is Sarah as been tagged and released back into the wild.

14 11 2008
turns

Piper must know the truth about her sisters birth. SP will not take a chance letting Piper talk about the birth. Piper has the power.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

austintx (06:12:57) :

Jamie — You are correct in your observation of Piper…….it’s almost……well…..like a loyal pet……..

*****

You’re right, so instead of a family dog . . .

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

Mister X (06:21:31) :

What difference does it make who Trig’s mom is?

______

For me, the birth question goes to SP’s truthfulness, or lack thereof. She obviously lies about many things, but to lie about such a huge issue is, well, in a different league.

One of the last lies I heard her tell was when Matt Lauer asked her about her plans to make a concession speech before McCain spoke on election night. Matt asked her if the McCain campaign knew that she was preparing a speech. She said of course they knew it. She had been writing it in conjunction with a couple of speechwriter’s for a week.

I think not, Palin.

She must believe that all of her lies are approved by God, as the means to an end (that is God’s will, of course).

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@rf11:
At this point, I would love to have just one of those stewardesses on the multiple flights that she took back to AK come forward to say, “Oh, yeah. She was pregnant.”

Or…”she was definitely NOT!”

@turns:

I thought about that, too. Though Trig is a brother. But she is more dangerous in front of the camera cause she apparently hams it up, loves it like momma! She should be out of the way up in her bedroom if they are afraid she’ll talk.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

I think the Trig birth mom thing is BIG b’cuz she was covering for her daughter but then when Bristol got pg (again?) this time, she announced it on national tv – so I think she is very devious and a lie this big is well, big!! I would think that a town as small as Wasilla would have some people who know . . . or even some fairly reliable rumors . . .

14 11 2008
Tired Mom (VA)

Newfoundland Dogs Rule (06:15:45) :

Yes, very proud to be BLUE here!!! But we have had two good blue governors in a row, which I believed helped. Love Tappahanock!! We have good friends in Deltaville and visit occasionally – you know how it is here, gotta go to the “rivah” on the weekends!!

14 11 2008
Tired Mom (VA)

As far as Trig is concerned: I’ve posted this before, but here is an entire website devoted to the topic: http://www.palinbabyquestion.com/

Interesting reading, pics and time-lines. Something is definitely fishy about that pregnancy/birth

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

DIdn’t someone also say that she dismissed all of the trooper/bodyguard protection – anyone seeing the family on a day to day basis like that would’ve noticed who in the house was pg – so it’s just another odd thing about this whole cover up.

14 11 2008
Lacy Lady

I know a young couple here in our town that had a child with DS. The couple were into drugs. Don’t know if this had anything to do with it or not. I read somwhere , that the Palin’s kids were doing drugs. ——Just a thought, but Trig looks a lot like Dude. Just different than most DS children. Incest??????

14 11 2008
deborah

Good Morning all.
@Jamie, Floridian in France
I don’t really want Kerry in that position – he’s a snore! Hillary would be good as she’s known and Bill was so well-loved and respected around the world! And Bill is doing so much through his foundation throughout Africa and the Middle East and working with a lot of the leaders from those parts of the world. We could assume that Hillary would be linked in people’s minds to that.
—————-

I don’t want Kerry either, and for the same reasons. Hillary, while I didn’t want her for my president, has just the sort of smarts and passion to do really well as SOS. I like that Obama is focusing on competence above all, even though he’s bound to get flack for choosing some competent Washington “insiders.” (And to be honest, as much as I love Rachel, she’s like a broken record on this point…is anyone else getting tired of it?)

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

Lacy Lady, babies born with DS are not the result of drug use. DS has a genetic origin; the cause of Down syndrome is one of three types of abnormal cell division involving the 21st chromosome.

Babies who have been exposed to drugs in utero are often born with disabilities, including mental retardation.

By the way, the good news is that all babies born with DS are not mentally retarded!

14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

I like the idea of Hillary as Secretary of State. Besides the fact that I think she would be a competent professional in this position, her appointment would just be more evidence that we Dems are getting our act together, and are united to address the international and domestic disasters left by Republican rule!

14 11 2008
pvazwindy

Steph in KS also (02:37:07) :

They have something similar to mad cow disease in deer, so it is possible that moose could carry it. I won’t eat “wild” venison for that very reason. Well, and because none of us hunts. Caribou is probably a more likely candidate, though. And we know she eats caribou. She got the moose for the stew she fed Plastic face Gretchen from her dad’s freezer.

Do they have a family dog? Just wondering because I don’t understand how anyone who has a pet dog could shoot a wolf for no good reason.

Todd owns a couple of “Artic Cats” don’t know about dogs

14 11 2008
the problem child (a jerk, also)

Happy birthday, Ripley!!

Oh, and on the dog thing, I’m pretty sure they had one but gave it away because they didn’t have enough time to look after it. (Sort of like Bristol.)

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

But . . . what about a possible Hillary appt to the Supreme Ct??

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

Afghan blast kills Irish marine

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7729535.stm)

I just found out about this. His family were next door neighbours when I was a teenager. I babysat Robert and his brother and sisters many times. I haven’t seen him since he was a baby, nevertheless this came as an awful shock to me today. His family must be devasted.
These bloody wars.

14 11 2008
the problem child (a jerk, also)

Oh, and I’d much rather have Hillary on the Supreme Court than as Sec. of St.. I really think she’d make a good judge. And I know a few judges. She’s got the temperament. Shouldn’t have too much trouble getting confirmed with a Dem Senate, either… This may be her only window.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

the problem child (a jerk, also) (06:59:00) :

Yeah, paying attention to what the children are doing or to a pet isn’t big on their list of priorities –

14 11 2008
katiebegood

My question about Sarah Palin’s supposed pregnancy is where are all of the pictures of her from the conference she was at when she supposedly went into labor? Sarah Palin certainly IS NOT camera shy. I find it odd that not one picture of her at that convention has surfaced. One thing she seems to be very competent at is damage control!

14 11 2008
Lynn-in-Australia

Perhaps the proof about Sarah & &Trig lies in how the four previous pregnancies and births were presented to the public. I mean – the previous children had public birth registrations. There were photos of mom during the pregnancy. All that normal stuff that seems glaringly missing this time around.

And yes, it’s completely physically possible for a woman to conceal a pregnancy right up to the delivery. But not usually without a lot of help, and not usually with a history of weight gain during pregnancy, and most definitely not without *someone* noticing and bragging afterwards that they’d known all along🙂

Btw – happy birthday Ripley –

Shoeho (hahahaha *I just* got your name!) – Keith Olbermann gave a mind-blowing speech on prop 8, in case you missed it. I had chills, literally, it was quite moving.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Grammy in PA (06:59:56) :

But . . . what about a possible Hillary appt to the Supreme Ct??

Noooo! Remember the Harriet Miers debacle – nominating a lawyer instead of someone with experience as a judge was seen for what it was – offering a lifetime seat on the Supreme Court in return for political suuport. Noooo!

@Irishgirl :
Sooo Sorry! That is terrible! I agree, these bloody wars! Collateral damage is someone’s family.

14 11 2008
ocliberal

I’m sorry I posted above as anonymous. My home computer doesn’t store my name like my work computer.

But just by the crazy suppositions on this thread alone I think it would behoove Pain to put the Trig controversy to rest. Andrew Sullivan isn’t going to let up. Everytime anyone mentions Trig the blogs go wild with crazy ideas about what really happened. The fact that there is no easy explanation just make one go hmmm. What is going on here?

Palin is just a really weird duck. She doesn’t live in this world. She is treated like a rock star which is okay if she were a rock star, but the fact she is campaigning to be a significant leader in the free world she needs to develop accountability. She has none. She is someone who has skated by on looks and ‘ah shucksness’ while hiding some very disturbing actions that demand explanation.

I don’t think she will survive much longer. Her schtick is getting old. She will become more and more and more of a joke as time goes on.

The Republicans know she is death to their party and they are alreaday starting to distance themselves from her. I would expect major fallout soon. Her gig is almost up.

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

Totally OT:

Has anyone noticed AKM’s cute little teeny-tiny happy smiley face in the lowest left corner of the page below the submit comment box?

So like AKM with a cute little “hidden” surprise! You must be scrolled all the way to the bottom; it’s the only place it appears.

So, do ya see it? (Might need reading glasses….LOL)

I wrote an earlier message about it – but alas…I think it went to spam.

14 11 2008
Democrat G (formerly "G")

Jamie, Floridian in France (06:31:42) :

@rf11:
At this point, I would love to have just one of those stewardesses on the multiple flights that she took back to AK come forward to say, “Oh, yeah. She was pregnant.”

Or…”she was definitely NOT!”

THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST FEW WEEKS! SOMEONE MUST KNOW! I MEAN, EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS WOMAN STINKS! McCain must’ve spent a FORTUNE paying people off. Heck, in this economy, I am sure it was EASY to pay people off and have them sign whatever you wanted them to sign!

14 11 2008
katiebegood

Jamie, Floridian in France (06:31:42) :

@rf11:
At this point, I would love to have just one of those stewardesses on the multiple flights that she took back to AK come forward to say, “Oh, yeah. She was pregnant.”

Or…”she was definitely NOT!”

Several stewardesses on that flight have come forth to say that “If Sarah Palin was pregnant, it certainly was not obvious to them”. I know that she is of a small stature, but at 8 months pregnant, she had to show to the point where the stewardesses would have noticed.

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

The pregnancy thing has been driving me batty as well. Most of us who are mothers really sense the weirdness of it all. Nothing really adds up and nothing ever will.

The truth eventually finds it’s way out – and the plane ordeal is just about the most telling thing about her….IF birth was imminent and she did board a plane for an eight hour ride home, clearly putting the child at risk; it is child abuse in my book. No way around it whatsoever.

I have noticed that in my 28 years of being a mother, that instinctively we “know” things as the truth in parenting. We rarely come up short in our mothering assessments – and the reality of what SP wants us to swallow in regards to her birthing that child is just something that we say, HEY WAIT!! WE KNOW BETTER!

14 11 2008
BahstinBoyo aka Wrangler Tractor Palin

Mister X – ‘Tagged and released’ … now THERE’S an hysterical visual! Brilliant!

Shoeho… I’m in Staurt as well… if there were ever to be a ‘meet and greet’ for Martin County, I’m there! Just curious… is the name ‘Shoeho’ indicative of a profession… or an obsession?

I believe that all we want to know about Trig et al will come to light soon enough. That information is bound to surface now that she’s just back to plain old GOVENOR Saracuda… add to that Stevens getting beat, and she won’t get re-elected to her current position. I have great faith in the people of AK having had enough of her style and temperament. Her political demise is not a matter of ‘if’, but of ‘when’. The Govenors Conference in Miami has shown just how little patience the other 49 have. Now is the beginning… watch her fall. I wish her and her family no ill will, mind you, she just needs to hang a sign on the door of the Govenors Mansion that simply says… ‘Gone Fishin’ ( HER spellin, not mine!)… Then she will be on the ‘What Ever Happened To…’ show!

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I see the smiley face down there🙂

I looked again at the link that Tired Mom posted above and clicked on the photo of Levi’s sister holding the baby. It sent me to a page with a photo of her holding Trig with SP and another with Bristol. Neither one looks like they just had a baby! How old is Willow?

14 11 2008
shoeho

Democrat G, et al.

Yeah, I would too. Only one prob with that. If they came forward they would probably be fired.

That said, a Captain noticing a VERY pregnant woman boarding (maybe yes, maybe no) might inquire as to “how pregnant” she was. He/she would then decide if it was safe to take her on the flight. No way, no how are they going to want someone giving birth on board.

On a domestic over land flight, though, it’s not as critical as on a long over water flight. If worst came to worst, they could probably have the plane on the ground in less than 45 minutes. Most labors are way longer than that. I had a woman go into premature labor on a flight from Frankfurt to New York. The pilots put down in Nova Scotia, where the paramedics took her to the hospital. Very pricey for the airline, but stuff happens.

14 11 2008
fawnskin hussein mudpuppy

@polly…

“team of rivals” is one of my favorite books ever. right up there with the bio of lyndon johnson, “path to power”.

14 11 2008
shoeho

Bahstinboyo–I’m actually in PC, but same diff. I’d love a Martin or TC meetup!
My DH is a Bahstin (well, Gloucester) native too.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

I don’t see a teeny smiley face, boo hoo!

14 11 2008
Lighthouse (CO)

I just opened up this thread, so maybe you’ve all moved on. (I haven’t made it to the bottom) but I worked with a Down Syndrome child for five years who was his parents first child. When he was born, his mother was in her early twenties, possibly even still 19. So I know that the chances go much higher with a mother over 40, but a DS baby born to a young mother is certainly not unexpected.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

@Goalie in NM

Yes! It just doesn’t feel right. And the other thing – she flies home, okay, no problem. But that gives her doctor enough time to drive to Anchorage and meet her at one of those 2 hospitals with excellent birth facilities, doesn’t it? Why would her doctor allow her to add those how many hours in a car onto to the two flights when she could have made the reverse trip herself?

For my second child, and Trig would be #5, I did go into false labor, but went to the hospital anyway at 3 am. The contractions went away. But at about 10:30, the real labor started and it zoomed in no time to top speed and I practically gave birth walking to the labor room. This is also another risk with someone who has given birth before: labor and birth coming on really quickly. She or her doctor would’ve thought of this possibilty, too. On top of the high risk of infection if your water breaks.

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

I highly doubt that any woman giving birth to her FIFTH child would be in labor all that long. When her water broke in Texas, she should have gone to the hospital….period, end of story. I see no rational excuse whatsoever to have boarded a plane for Seattle and then to have to board another one to Alaska!

Even in an alternate universe this scenario would not play out this way.

She is not the mother of that child and so far she has done NOTHING to prove to her critics that we are wrong.

A Big WHY?

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Grammy:

scroll all the way down until you can’t scroll any more. Look at the bottom left hand corner of the SCREEN (gray not the white).

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

OHHHHHHHHHH on the gray! Yes, it’s there and soooooo tiny!

14 11 2008
diane

I think Hillary said she was absolutely not interested in a Supreme Court appointment.
I’m a bit concerned about a Kerry SOS possibility, especially with Uncle Teddy’s health…would it be a bit difficult for MA if they were to have to replace both of their Senators in a very short amount of time?

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

I have been keeping up with this blog as I’m sure many of you are as well:

http://www.palindeception.com/blog/

It’s the most comprehensive one I have found regarding the circumstances surrounding Trig’s birth.

14 11 2008
halcrow

@ grammy

Just for you (please take your pick).
😆 😀 🙂 8) 😛 😉

14 11 2008
Lacy Lady

This is off subject , but think everyone will enjoy this web site.
http://www.andysinger.com
I have know andrew since he was born. His grandmother lived nextdoor to us for more than 30 years.He spent a lot of summers visiting his grandparents. Andrew was born in NY —now married –and lives in Minnesota.—–Great cartoons !!! Also read Andy’s rants. (political views)
I would send this info to Sarah—but don’t think she would understand what the H……. he was talking about.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

halcrow,

thanks, I’ll stop whining now . . .

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Irishgirl aka puck mule (07:01:32) :

not to appear heartless, but back in the 60’s there was an expression:

“what if they gave a war and nobody came”

if one choses to participate in the military for whatever reason, it is a CHOICE and I see no reason why we should join the whining.

If no one will take a moral stand against war, then those seeking to benefit from it… well… it’s a career choice… there’s [sadly] no draft [except for a lot of US troops like Trac, Trump, Trip or whatever-the -hell the no-goodnick Palin kid trying to stay out of jail for drug offence(s)]. QED

14 11 2008
BahstinBoyo aka Wrangler Tractor Palin

shoeho…

Bahn in Ev’ritt meself… just theyah lahst munth… cawt a Sawx game at McGreeveys Pub in towne… hahd a whicked pissah of a thyme! LOL

If memory serves, wasn’t there a way to exchange email addys here? Not that I am particularly worried about mine! Besides… my therapist says I need to make more friends anyway (JUST KIDDING!) I would be happy to help organize that M&G for the Treasure Coast! Nothing like ‘real time’ discussion with many varied opinions at one table! Or two or three! I sense a ‘chapter’ beginning!

Hey AKM… any charter rules for chapters?

14 11 2008
biglake

Irishgirl, It must be truly devasting to find out that someone you knew personally has been killed in a war such as is being waged in Afghanistan.
I don’t know how I would cope if it happened to me. Just make me determined to work that much harder for talk and peaceful resolutions, I guess.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

megacephalus (07:42:32) :

The whole thing w/ Track is yet another unsolved mystery – since his juvenile proceedings were closed.

14 11 2008
halcrow

@ grammy

I wasn’t suggesting whining (I almost went cross-eyed looking for the darn thing myself).

14 11 2008
NY Dem
14 11 2008
rf11 in Blue FL

Goalie, I was just about to post that website.🙂

I posted earlier that the Trig birth is a question of Palin’s truthfulness. After thinking more about it, I think it goes beyond truthfulness. It goes to just how manipulative, obscene and power hungry this woman is, and to what lengths she will go to get what she wants.

It also goes to what a complete hypocrit she is by putting herself out there as the family values candidate.

I do know that if the truth is finally revealed, her fellow right wing whack jobs would think it was just fine – justified, I’m sure, by whatever her twisted reason was for doing it.

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

Speaking of the war in Afghanistan, those troops are over there with no relief, no supplies, no protective gear and no money to keep them going. We have all but abandoned our troops in the low-lying hills of the Afghan countryside. That being said, the troops that are stuck there are doing a mighty fine job on no sleep and little food. I’m ashamed of our administration for putting those fine folks out there to twist in the wind – even if they did volunteer to serve in the military. They didn’t ask for this!!

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

halcrow (07:46:51) :

Oh, no prob!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ AKM

on Daily Kos KOS uses a ‘poll’ widget that lets one ‘vote’ on various options…

it would be very interesting to see how the Mudpuppies break on what they believe is the true MadCow / Trak story…

14 11 2008
Tired Mom (VA)

can’t see smiley face either😦

14 11 2008
Debbie aka Commando Coalfire Mudpuppie

Goalie in NM (07:31:51) :

I highly doubt that any woman giving birth to her FIFTH child would be in labor all that long.
———————————————————–
No doubt, I have a friend who has five kids. She went into labor in the middle of the night. She decided it was time to go to the hospital based on her past experience, her husband went out to bring the car around by the time he returned he was a father yet again. They say the whole thing took like 45 minutes.

14 11 2008
Suchanut_AK

Mudpups! I think we are finally rounding the bend.

For the very first time in months, not one letter to the editor about SWWNBN in this mornings Anchorage Daily News!

I repeat, not one! 🙂

I had to share that and now I must work. Everyone have a great day and keep those candles burning!

GO BEGICH!!!

14 11 2008
Goalie in NM

@Debbie aka Commando Coalfire Mudpuppie (07:55:00),

It just doesn’t seem plausible by any stretch, eh?

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Tired Mom (VA) :

It doesn’t look like the smile is there for the moment. Just keep checking. It is super tiny.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

Oh, I totally forgot about the ADN removing that “post your pics of Palin” feature – I wrote and asked them back when she was selected for VP candidate why it was on their site b’cuz I thought it was giving her exposure that was not afforded to the other candidates. I thought there was a law that there has to be equal time/coverage of each candidate, not just one. Also, I found it strange that they had that feature and then turned around and endorsed Obama??

14 11 2008
Debbie aka Commando Coalfire Mudpuppie

Did anyone ever consider Trig could be anyones baby, doesn’t have to be Bristols, and he is may very well not be Sarahs. He could be the child of a friend, or for that matter her sister. For what ever reason they wish to hide his true parentage?

14 11 2008
teri

The interesting thing about the Pregnancy and giving birth in Alaska. I had both my children up there in Alaska, if SP was giving birth in Texas -they wouldnt allow for her to go up to Alaska. Especially if it would be determined that he is a DS baby. Mainly because they dont have the equipment, if at all, she would be in Anchorage, (not Wasilla) The only options for special needs is in Anchorage or Seattle.

I had my son 6 weeks premature and learned alot of information. The statistics that I had, were mostly here in Washington, but babies born prematurely, like my son occur in pregnancies where there is no prenatal care.

SP gave the state of the state address just days before Trig was born, she looked the same as she does know, except she was using “older” looking clothes. When I watched that, I thought she was at least 50 years old. I was shocked to find out she is my age, and had a baby.

It seemed odd that she would have had her baby without it affecting her work. When I had my son 6 weeks early, I was in the hospital for 5 and a half weeks with him. That was 14 years ago, Im sure our health care is the same but there are still only 2 options, Anchorage or Seattle.

My point is, there is no way any doctor or health professional would “release” her without proper medical care. IN my case, I was in the hospital for a week. My son was “developmentally delayed” and his case isnt as severe.
What I learned about the ladies who were dealing with DS babies is that it is much more time consuming, to get the proper care.

They did bring up the issue of healthcare service in one of her interviews, and the lack of emotion. When I was dealing with this issue-there were 3 of us ladies, who were “standing up” to improve health care in Alaska and we even went as far as to speak to TEENS, one of my friends who had her son 3 months early, was only 19, went to tell them of how “challenging” it is in Alaska. (I was living in Alaska when my son was born) Her medical bills at that point was 1 million. MY medical bills for 5 and a half weeks, came to $92,000/

we eventually moved south, because they didnt have the follow up care, so if SP did have her son, and faced the same issues I would think she would make a stronger arguement to Improve health care for Alaska women. In her interview she seemed as though she could care less.
So I dont know, and if so, It is very strange.

When we gave our talks we couldnt help but demonstrate DEEP Emotion, (crying, laughing, ) I dont see that in SP at all. (we cried while the babies were on life support, and in the hospital, and laughing when their health improved) It is a very emotional time, My son is fine, a year behind in school but otherwise does really well. I just cant imagine this—I dont see, that she is.

I do know, most hospitals in Alaska publish babies pictures with the parents names and babies name so with a web search we should be able to find it.

14 11 2008
Sparky

Okay…stop for a little smile! (morning everyone…Yo, Jamie)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/jean-biden-meet-joe-biden_n_143665.html

Jean Biden: Meet Joe’s mom

Sorry if this has been posted…late for work…very cute about Joe Biden’s mom. 92! Especially enjoyable is reading the comments from people🙂 Some neat pictures. Obama and Biden families are going to be nice to have in Washington. Later pups!

14 11 2008
NY Dem

Did anyone ever consider Trig could be anyones baby……

—————————————–

Hate to say it out loud, but the possibility does exist that Trig could be an incest baby too.

There is certainly SOME deep, dark reason that there is such a mystery and so many questions surrounding the birth and parentage of Trig.

And it all could have been resolved on Day One, or anytime thereafter with a simple release of a birth certificate, or some medical records.

The fact that the birth does not appear in any Mat-Su Hospital records is puzzling, and there is more to this story than we (the public) will probably ever know.

Unless of course the Enquirer dangles a nice 7-figure check under someone’s nose that does know the truth ———stranger things have happened !

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

Did anyone ever consider Trig could be anyones baby, doesn’t have to be Bristols, and he is may very well not be Sarahs. He could be the child of a friend, or for that matter her sister. For what ever reason they wish to hide his true parentage?

****

Hmmm, her sister’s . . . trying to keep the fact unknown so that Wooten wouldn’t have any ammunition during the divorce?

14 11 2008
fawnskin hussein mudpuppy

i feel blessed to see the tiny smiley. now i can go about my daily tasks with a smiley on my face.

14 11 2008
Gardenslug

The Trigg rumors need to be investigated and cleared up by the “Mainstream Media”- Gov. Palin said so herself during the Larry King interview. She in no way feels it is on her to prove that outlandish birth story. Whether the rumors are true or not, Palin’s mental health needs to be examined because either she endangered Trigg’s health with that long delay getting to a hospital or there’s a crazy cover-up going on; and, the Palin family needs to be investigated to figure out if there is child abuse as pertains to Trigg’s needs and the long absences of the daughters from school.

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

re: incest baby, someone else mentioned it. But would that explain the legends on Levi’s sister’s photos of her with Trig?

re: Sarah’s sister: same argument. Levi’s sister refered to baby Trig as “my new little brother” on her Facebook page. And Sarah as mommy–in-law. Hmmm….

Hiya Sparky!

14 11 2008
austintx

Get Piper alone……take her to a really big mall……..tell her she can have what-ever……ask her how everyone is doing…….

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

Gardenslug (nice name):

I agree. Why hasn’t the MSM been on this? It shouldn’t be that difficult for them!

14 11 2008
ds55

@ Steph in KS (02:20:36) : //Down’s Syndrome is much more common in births of women over 40. The odds of Bristol having a child with Down’s Syndrome is remote, at best. //

This is my theory on Trig’s birthmother: Trig’s father is Track Palin, Sarah’s oldest son who is in Iraq. Trig’s mother is Sherry Johnston, who is Levi Johnston’s mother. (Mercede “Sadie” Johnston, who is Levi’s sister, called Trig her new little brother on photos posted on MySpace.) This may be a reason why the baby doctor is a specialist in child abuse. This may be a reason why Track was shipped off to the military. Photos of Sherry Johnston have been scrubbed from the internet. I copied a couple of them here:

14 11 2008
Progressive From Oregon

A comment about Fraud Palin and then a story for all of you Don Juan/Carlos Casteneda followers.

Re: the Fraudster. There seems to be a concerted effort by the media to gloss over quite a bit of Palin’s questionable bio. I think it’s imperative that truth makes a stand where Palin is concerned; there certainly is a lot to work with in that regards. We have momentum in a lot of directions right now, perhaps we can include some movement in the direction of truth, as well.

The Failure Party & it’s sycophants are being rather successful in pushing the meme that Palin was ‘attacked’ by the ‘disreputable’ blogosphere creating lies about her.

The morning Palin was picked, I was up early and decided to ‘Google’ her name. A few weeks before the 60 Minutes piece had been on & I’d read about her on the CBS site, but hadn’t got around to going further. I was astonished at what I found the morning of McCain’s folly. (the best thing to come out of that day was my discovery of Mudflats).

I spent the next 3-4 hours riveted to the screen reading article after article on Alaska Newspaper sites about Palin, her questionable pregnancy, her son, the sports facility fiasco, her church, etc, etc. I was literally slack-jawed. I was so angry over the potential peril John McCain had created by picking her as a running-mate, I wrote a post calling for a national boycott & work stoppage in protest of the insult to the American voter and the potential threat of a Palin ascendancy to President if Grampy Mac kicked the bucket. Obviously I was freaked by the choice, so much so I sincerely thought others would see it and join me in the outrage. I wasn’t even considering the fact is is McCain’s right to make a fool out of himself and kill his election chances. I was FREAKED.

Imagine my continued rage as day after day the media regurgitated the Failure Party’s talking point lie about the Palin stories being ‘blogosphere’ rumors when, in fact, I read them in Alaska newspapers!

I think we could strike a serious blow against the Failure Party propaganda machine if we could come up with a way to demonstrate the depth of stories the Alaska papers had about Palin and show where the stories actually originated. I’m sure our Mudpuppy kin in AK can come up with the clippings; any ideas as to how to present it with the most PR appeal?

14 11 2008
Trini

What did she say? That Trig was “hers” or that she gave birth to him? I can’t remember her exact words, but if she left it at: of course Trig was hers, then, to her it might not be lying at all. She and Todd could have adopted him and so the statement that he is “hers” could be true. Trouble is, I can’t remember what she said.

14 11 2008
Jen in Washington State

Just a mother’s perspective…

When I saw footage of Bristol holding Trig, she looked like a Mother, she “held” him, she comforted him, she did that little sway back and forth from hip to hip – all actions very familiar to any loving mother who has taken care of an infant.

When Sarah holds Trig, she holds him away from her like a sack of potatoes.

He’s either Bristol’s child or she’s the one who spends the most time taking care of him.

14 11 2008
antiAnti

see the tiny smile better – zoom your browser to 400% and scroll to bottom left corner – big fat happy smile

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

DS55, your argument has a lot of logic to it.. IT could explain all sorts of stuff, except if that was true, why would Barbie end up with him, not his birth mother? If Track were the daddy, and he’s off to the Army boonies, wouldn’t mom keep trig?

unless there was some payoff in this to keep it secret.

The easiest way to find out is to do DNA on all the players, but you can bet Barbie’s not giving up a sample nor will her kids, although Track would have samples on file from the military, they’d not likely provide a sample.

I think when all is said and done, for some reason, Barbie lied, she didn’t give birth and has some end game going on..

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Debbie aka Commando Coalfire Mudpuppie (08:04:27) :

interesting point!

ya think a ‘Cabbage Patch Kid’?

Sure has a family resemblance…😉

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

@ds55
I’m inclined to believe that Track might be the dad as well. I’m not too sure of the mother (there seemed to be a lot of drugs flying around at the time). It would explain why he was packed off to war! And that would be much more of a scandal than Bristol and Levi. Track and Trig are not dissimilar names.

Thanks to all the mudpuppies for expressions of sympathy.
@Megacephalus – I know you are right, he obviously joined the Marines of his own free will – something I don’t understand – but it is the first time in my life that I have known a casuality of war. I’m not whining about war, but I would have to have a heart of stone not to be very saddened at this news.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

I think Trig is Bristol’s – but geez, if your young daughter has a child, wouldn’t you have some kind of heart to heart about ways to avoid doing it again, especially so soon?? I know that SP is anti-abortion but is she anti birth control?

I think she was able to take that long journey back to AK b’cuz she wasn’t pregnant and she only had to get to the hospital in time to “be there” for Bristol. However, wasn’t Bristol living in Anch for a portion of this time period? If so, wouldn’t she have the baby in an Anch hospital rather than hoping that the whole town of Wasilla would be kept in the dark about who was in the delivery room?

I do remember when I first learned that SP had a baby – a friend of mine in Jnu told me that SP had commented that they knew it was going to be a special needs baby before it was born – my friend thought it was honorable of SP to go through the pregnancy knowing this. But, of course, she would never have had an abortion no matter what.

14 11 2008
sparkleball

I don’t know if any man can understand fully the hubbub surrounding the mystery of trig’s birth. As women, we know Palin lies about her children, their births, her motherhood. I sometimes feel it is almost a biological thing within us: that it’s our feminine job to expose dangerous women who threaten the roles we hold dearest. That may sound crazy. . .

But we also know what we see when Bristol holds Trig or Levi kisses his head. Men have mistrusted our intuition forever, but it is just another way, as valuable as facts or logic, of knowing.

14 11 2008
austintx

ds55 -wow- your theory is possible……..and there are many out there…….any alone or combined could be the truth…….we ARE talkin’ hillbillies here!! …shiny objects and/or money should do the trick………I don’t think there will be any more cks. in the mail……..

14 11 2008
sparkleball

Another thought:

If there are so many single young pregnant women in Alaska, why would Bristol having a baby warrant such wild subterfuge, so many lies, and so much coverup– when all of that poses more threat to Palin’s career than a simple out-of-wedlock pregnancy?

No, something more is at the bottom of it. There’s another important piece.

14 11 2008
El from Saskatchewan

Check this out:

http://www.palindeception.com/index.html

There are lots of pictures of the pregnancy deception here.

ds55: I have wondered about Track being the daddy for a long time. Wasn’t his girlfriend in Spain for the first months of 2008?

14 11 2008
shoeho

Jen in Washington–I was never blessed with kids of my own, but I couldn’t believe how SP held that baby!

Bristol seemed much more “motherly.” Who knows whether that is because she is indeed his biological mother or his sister/caretaker, but I couldn’t believe that “loaf of bread” arm around the middle thing. I’ve never held a baby like that! Heck, I don’t hold my CATS like that! It just didn’t seem loving.

And having that poor little thing out on stage at the RNC at 11 at night? WHO in their right freakin’ mind would do that? I’m sure the RNC could have sprung for a baby nurse for a few hours!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ ds55 (08:30:18) :

luv it! [seriously] that’s the most byzantine one yet! go… go… more… more… then there’s ‘first dud’ and ‘Mrs. Johnson’, and… and…

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

*casualty* – excuse the spelling!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

immaculate conception anyone?

perhaps MadCow is just holdin’ out on us… per orders of GOD, as it didn’t turn out so well [2k years out-of-practice, or what?] uughhhh… enuf!!!

14 11 2008
ds55

@ megacephalus (08:59:42) : //then there’s ‘first dud’ and ‘Mrs. Johnson’…//

Oh! I like that angle, too. Todd Palin + Sherry Johnston = Trig Palin.

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ austintx (08:57:35) :

“shiny objects… should do the trick…”

luv it! thank you… best chuckle of the blog!

14 11 2008
amy

I admit I haven’t paid too much attention to the “trig thing”…..I was too worried about other things. I do remember seeing the My Space pics before they were “disappeared’ and there was A LOT of drinking pics on there. Crown Royal looking to be a favorite.
How do we know Trig is a downs syndrome and not a fetal alcohol syndrome baby?? If one were to drink hard alcohol for the first, say 4 months, wouldn’t that also be a possibility? I admit that I know nothing about either problem but maybe some of you do??
Just wondering……it would explain some things, maybe, also?

14 11 2008
Progressive From Oregon

Since there’s a lively discussion about Trig, et al, here’s another Palin point to ponder.

Being the night owl that I am, I was watching TV about 4:am west coast time the Tuesday of the Repub Convention when a Meredith Viera interview aired for the first and only time. She was interviewing a woman from the McCain I never saw again. I can’t remember her name, but the take-away impression of her position was the top most female. (maybe someone knows who this is)

Viera asked her about the timing of the announcement of Bristol’s pregnancy – why it was delayed, etc. The woman said, (paraphrased),”We weren’t going to announce it at all to give Bristol some privacy, considering she’s a teenager and the national press, etc; but after the horrible rumor that’s been started by the irresponsible blogosphere that Gov Palin is not the mother of Trig, (and Bristol was), we decided that announcing Bristol’s pregnancy would hopefully counter that story.”

I caught a nap soon after watching that amazing piece and when I remembered 4-5 hours later, I went looking for the Viera interview and was unable to find it on the NBC site. I looked 3-4 times afterwards, but never found it.

Remember, this was early in the McFailin’ campaign; there had not been any serious screw-ups I can remember now, so no one was aware just how easily the McCain staff put their feet in their mouths.

Let’s analyze the ‘loose lips’ of this campaign person: she publicly said the campaign considered announcing Bristol’s pregnancy as an intrusion on her privacy, then immediately said the campaign decided to throw this 17 year-old to the national press wolves because of an irresponsible rumor about Sarah Palin, an ADULT political candidate. First, who is better equipped to handle THAT onslaught into one’s privacy?

Second, if the ‘rumor’ is irresponsible and untrue, it’s laughable how easy it would be to squash the story. But given the McCain campaigned didn’t research the Alaska papers prior to picking Palin and they stripped all available photos and information from the Internet they had control over, it makes one wonder.

If anyone had seriously challenged whether my wife was the mother of either of our daughters, I would have laughed and shown them the newspaper birth announcement, or the birth certificate, or date-substantiated photo of my wife waddling a week or so before the birth, or asked my doctor to make a statement. Any number of things. In the Wasilla hospital, I guess there is a book that everyone records their child’s birth info in.

It’s not like birth information is secretive or normally cloistered for privacy reasons, well except when a child is adopted, so the birth parent(s) can remain anonymous.

In hind sight, knowing how inept the McCain staffers were, it’s easy to see how they bungled this one. A high ranking campaign staffer volunteered to network press the campaign decided to throw a 17 yo girl to the press in order to stiffle a story about the candidate.

They also seemed urgent to discredit the ‘irresponsible blogosphere’. It shows they were either ignorant of the newspaper articles questioning the birth or ignoring the truth in favor hot of what has turned out to be a Failure Party talking point; the Failure Party issued a statement immediately following the election saying the direction media was going with the ‘validation’ of blogs as legitimate media was a turn for the dark ages, etc, etc.

The campaign immediately dumped the ‘throw Bristol in front of the press bus’ story, (I had heard it before the Viera clip); by the middle of the following day, there was a completely different tack in response to the Palin-Trig story. Given that I couldn’t find the video, never saw it again AND, now that WE ALL know most of the players in the McCain campaign, can’t think of a high ranking young woman ON the campaign makes me wonder if she was the first eff-up casualty.

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

I think we have lost the run of ourselves now.🙂
Anyone consider Track and Bristol? Now that would be a scandal.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

There’s little doubt this is just a Bristol had a kid story. There is more involved and while I like the Track story, what about the First Dud story? Could it be that Dud had the kid, either incestuously, which would ABSOLUTELY explain the secrecy, or only less evil, is Dud had an affair with someone and they took the baby, paid off the mom and sent her to Costa Rica..

How much would her darling hubby having an affair affect Barbie? Maybe not much, but in the world of Barbie, i’d guess anything that’s negative must be silenced and destroyed.

And I don’t think it would take a lot of cash to get the answer.. My bet is a bright shiny red Vespa scooter would get them to talk..🙂

14 11 2008
Forty Watt

@ megacephalus (07:42:32) :

if one choses to participate in the military for whatever reason, it is a CHOICE and I see no reason why we should join the whining.

For many it’s not much of a choice. If you watched the coverage of soldiers killed in Iraq, when the media still covered such things, many families talked about the lack of employment opportunities in their communities together with the lack of money to attend college. Joining the military may not have been the only choice out of few, and none of them good, but in terms of getting an education it often was the best one.

14 11 2008
JaneE

Just want you to know, AKM, you have changed my morning ritual considerably over these many months.

I thought I would be moving on after the election, or that there would be nothing to pique my interest here. I mean, we all just wanted Palin to disappear and with that wonderful event, I didn’t think you would be keeping your numbers up here.

I have passed on this website to many of my friends, I know they haven’t been here because I would recognize them. But there are many who remain.

So now, my morning ritual . . . . get up, let the dog out, start water for tea, turn computer on, brush teeth and etc., light up and check out my first news source, Mudflats. Hours later, reenter the virtural world.

Really dug Jesse Ventura’s clear headed responses. That man is a brainiac.

14 11 2008
austintx

Bristol’s high school chums……..remember the movie “Heathers” with Winona Ryder and Christian Slater ??? …gift cards….mall trips……..shiny objects…….money…free pictures for the modeling portfolio !!! ..these girls can’t be hard to find…….

14 11 2008
megacephalus

o.k. someone tell me to stop…

but this whole story is reeking of life as it has always been since the late 1600’s in the upland hollers of incest and abuse in ‘hillbilly heaven’…

the [unfortunate] PWT of the English prisons and the Irish shipped as white slaves before the Revolution in the US, and they were then shipped to Australia… [apologies Aussies]

no wonder that on the Appalachian Ridge they [almost] ALL voted ‘MadCow’!

there was a great map of the red ridge on 538 I think.

14 11 2008
Mother Who Thinks

This story line of Palin/Trig et al just won’t die. One thing seen again and again is that Palin seems not to have bonded with Trig. It sure looks like that to me, from the way she holds him, uses him as a political prop, hands off the endless and time-consuming tasks of parenting to others so she can claim the stage.

From my perspective, this makes a certain kind of sense. The baby you have is not the baby you dreamed of, the baby you thought you’d have. There is anger, denial, searching, grief, depression….all the stages of accepting a death, only you keep cycling through them day by day. There are noted psychologists and child development experts who affirm this. They also note a high risk of attachment disorders and confirm that children with disabilities are three times more likely to be abused than non-disabled children. I experienced this detachment with the birth of my child with Down syndrome.

There’s an incredible amount of pressure on you as a mother to step up and go forward into this unexpected, unwanted aspect of parenting. (It’s every pregnant couple’s nightmare come true.)

You have to keep this happy face to the world while you’re dying inside. And you have this little stranger to deal with, while everyone is watching. He didn’t come with instructions and he’s not “just like” the others – in fact, he’s a mystery in so many ways, and (in my case) he has health issues that keep you separated. And there’s so much to learn. And your other children need you too, and there’s your job…..and your husband is in a similar hell and there’s little time for each other. I took a 3 week old baby with a hole in his heart, a colostomy bag, and a dim prognosis and frightening diagnosis home from the NICU to a rural village.

And I took care of him, and I learned about him, and I read books about him, and I connected with infant learning programs and established relationships with people who could help us, and I cried a lot and I wondered “Why me?” And as the days and weeks went by, and he became more responsive and I became more confident and informed, I found myself telling others, “He’s the best baby!” and pointing out his tiny steps forward. Gratefully, I realized that I was falling in love with THIS baby, this child with Down syndrome I never expected or wanted. I bonded with my baby, months after his traumatic entry into the world.

SO: Sarah, through whatever series of events and for whatever reasons, was offered a way out of this unanticipated role of mother of an child with special needs….in a way that would aggrandize her ego, crown her with exceptional motherhood and and relieve her of all those duties at the same time! She FLEW away from this child and into the bright lights. Had she truly bonded with her baby and knew what he needed and committed herself to truly meeting her child’s needs, she would not have considered McCain’s VP offer.

My $.02!

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Irishgirl, look at you, girlfriend, gettin all jiggy on us..:) you go girl..

hahahah

I think there are lots of scenarios, and the truthful one will be the worst of them all.. Track/Bristol would qualify and a doctor would have to give all the potential health problems of siblings having a kid..

Gee, we’re on fire today..!

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ Forty Watt (09:16:05) :

re: choices… well said, and it is sadly so in the US… CHANGE anyone?

14 11 2008
Mike In Illinois

The home based interviews with Palin raised the question again in my mind:

How did she afford that house on her salary as mayor and what Todd made fishing and racing snowmachines?

Answer from Todd: “Some contractor friends of mine helped me build it.”

So my questions are: (1) Did any of those “contractor friends” happen to have been doing work also on the municipal hockey complex or any other municipal projects past or present?

(2) Did the Palins declare the value of that work as a gift on their tax returns?
As I understand it, that’s what Ted Stevens was indicted and convicted for doing, also.

Is anyone looking into this?

14 11 2008
SMR

Re: flying while pregnant —

I had to have a doctor’s letter when I was 7 months pregnant for a 1.5 hour flight. I think that anyone flying without that letter (required by all airlines as far as I know) should be prosecuted for breaking the law. How dangerous is it to the child to do that? Come on! And to know that crew intervention may be required to deliver your special needs child? WTF? And the water breaking thing? I had to go to the maternity center as soon as my water broke. As far as I know everyone does, the risk of infection is significant.

And I could not agree more with the person who was questioning the drive to Wasilla to have the baby. A) I question whether any special-needs child is born there deliberately, I do not think that the small hospital in Wasilla is anyone’s first choice for that. She has an irresponsible doctor or she is lying or both. B) Her children (including unborn baby) are all covered for free care at the local Native Hospital in Anchorage. So, if you were going to give birth to a special needs child that may possibly require hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of care would you REALLY have it at the little hospital down the road from your house or would you go to the huge fully-equipped hospital where all of your care is free?

There is so much about her story that is just not right. I would love to see Trig raised by a loving mother, and if she has co-opted him for her grandiose plans that is just plain wrong in a million ways! I only care about WHO gave birth to this child because it could be proof of yet more lying by Bible Spice, and I do honestly think that some people would think that this was the last straw for them. Separating the child from his true mother to use as your political prop? I think there are plenty in her base, and plenty of special-needs parents currently on her side, that would think that that is unacceptable.

She did offer to show everyone her stretch marks to prove Trig is hers! Whatever, as if those couldn’t have come from one of the other 4! How about showing us a birth certificate and then we’ll talk!

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Mother Who Thinks … and others who’ve experienced birth defects..

I wrote this many years ago. But it’s a timeless poem.. I’ve not shared this in over 20 years..

Joey

Life sometimes takes us on certain odd and curious journeys
The miracles of a new child being brought into todays world
Is an incredible and wonderous sight for all of us to behold
As we watch them grow and admire what they all are to become
Those who proclaim to know these things will tell us simply
That God will create nothing except perfection in his Image
Observing that we are all merely recreations of God so perfect
Yet sometimes it seems that somehow a mistake or error appears
And the joy felt then turns to wonderment or sometimes anger
Watching the child growing who seems to be unable to follow
Trying to grow in a world slightly askew from the rest of us
Why does this happen to those and who can or will accept blame
Questions almost impossible to answer simply or blame to place
Cannot be done easily as we want to know we are not at fault
Then these challenges that inevitably we must follow closely
The pain that comes from seeing the child who can’t quite do
Knowing intense frustration that wells up inside us hurting
But we do all that we can to assist this Child of God created
Yet imperfect as God had promised to us that all are made so
While slowly and with great pain and patience we watch him
As all our efforts do pay off in small and tiny steps slowly
Slight improvements we cherish more than we can dream possible
The smallest challenges overcome are not simply minor we know
And those steps taken so very slowly do follow because of us
These efforts feel sometimes tiresome and maybe even futile
But we continue forward and do our best not to second guess
As the littlest of miracles that we created works very hard
And finally after so much anguish and pain felt deep inside
Wondering if we are really doing all that we can do to assist
We get the answer when the child is ready to reveal it to us
We watched him grow and become that something extra special
And then out of the most amazing of children to let us know
That all the pain tears sweat blood and efforts were accepted
And have been truely worthwhile all this time we spent caring
This all too special child makes it so incredibly clear to us
When simply put all you needed to hear was “I love you, Mommy”

14 11 2008
megacephalus

@ AKM

[retry from earlier (07:50:51) ]

Any support guys?

“on Daily Kos KOS uses a ‘poll’ widget that lets one ‘vote’ on various options…

“it would be very interesting to see how the Mudpuppies break on what they believe is the true MadCow / Trak story…”

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

@Marty
There’s little doubt this is just a Bristol had a kid story.
———————————————-

My point exactly! There is far more to this than Bristol and Levi.

14 11 2008
sparkleball

Palin would have had a lot more to lose if one of Dud’s girlfriends got pregnant and blackmailed them, than her own daughter’s pregnancy, which appears to be common, condoned (even by the church), and routine in Alaska.

SOMETHING had to be extreme to cause her to fake a pregnancy and take so many risks.

But how about this: Bristol might show maternal care toward Trig if he were the child of her beloved boyfriend and her mother.

14 11 2008
SMR

@Mike in IL —

I think there are many of us hoping that the FBI does their job in regard to that house as they did with Uncle Ted. Not sure it is their bailiwick, as I don’t know exactly what factor determines whether or not something is a federal crime. However, it sure needs some looking into, and hopefully someone will put some pressure on whichever authorities need to look into it.

Crossing fingers here in AK that we can boot Bible Spice out of office somehow some way!!!!

14 11 2008
sparkleball

oops. then of course if trig were palin and levi’s, the pregnancy wouldn’t have been false. . .

but it might have been treated a bit too casually, and not at all a thing of grand announcements and promenading about. And a miscarriage might not have been a thing to avoid. . .

The thing about Palin. NOTHING is too farfetched, because in the end she’ll best us all in that department.

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

That house was pretty fancy.. anyone notice the kitchen applicances were all commercial grade? They weren’t Kenmore or GE… They were restaurant grade applicances.! Fishier and fishier..!

14 11 2008
amy

Ok, I give up. I thought my question
(How do we know Trig is a downs syndrome and not a fetal alcohol syndrome baby?? )
was a little off the wall but you guys are really running with this! As much as I hate this woman I just can’t see any of this incest stuff flying. I say it’s something sImple that she didn’t NEED to lie about but CHOSE TO LIE ABOUT.

14 11 2008
akmuckraker

New thread!

14 11 2008
Irishgirl aka puck mule

@sparkleball
But how about this: Bristol might show maternal care toward Trig if he were the child of her beloved boyfriend and her mother.
______________________________________________

Eeeewww!

14 11 2008
InspectorT

NEW THREAD ALERT!!!!

NEW THREAD ALERT!!!!

NEW THREAD ALERT!!!!

14 11 2008
Mother Who Thinks

Down syndrome is diagnosed by a chromosome study. There are certain physical features which are often present but do not confirm the presences of an extra copy of the 21st chromosome. The chromosome abnormality occurs at conception (95%) or within the first few divisions of the fertilized egg.

As the geneticist from the March of Dimes said to me: There’s nothing you DID or DID NOT DO that caused this. It’s a randomly occurring event of nature.

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Fetal Alcohol Effects are not “testable” disabilities but rather are a series of dysmorphic differences in the brains and bodies of people with “normal” chromosomes. The differences are created by fetal exposure to alcohol and other drugs at ANY time in the prenatal period…i.e. directly caused by mother’s consumption.

14 11 2008
Grammy in PA

SMR (09:25:46) :

Both SP and Bristol have health care coverage through the state – they would not necessarily use a Native hospital . . . SOOOOOOO, here’s a question – did SP file claims for pre-natal care/delivery/hospitalization, etc. in HER name or Bristol’s – if it was in her name and Bristol was actually the mother, isn’t that insurance fraud?

14 11 2008
InJuneau

@Ripley in CT (03:59:30) :

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! (and I hope you didn’t have to make yourself a pie and congrats on now being able to get married if you find the right person (hint, if you’ve been looking, just stop looking and someone will appear!))

14 11 2008
Jamie, Floridian in France

I have to agree with sparkleball – we who are women and mothers have to keep going back to this story because it is driving us crazy! Intuition or instinct, call it what you will, but we just know that the whole thing is impossible – her pregnancy, the famous speech and flight and drive, everything. We will not rest (or shut up) until the mystery is solved! Don’t know if the men out there are driven by the same thing.

14 11 2008
sparkleball

My shaman-therapist says that the victory of Obama is a victory for the feminine side of us all because he affirms life, love, family, and our mother earth. . .

14 11 2008
InJuneau

@Jamie, Floridian in France (07:31:03) :

Palin’s doctor didn’t/doesn’t have admitting privilages at the Anchorage hospitals, so there was no way she could have met her there to have the baby. Plus, it is prob. easier to control whatever the records are at a smaller hospital.

14 11 2008
Enchanted and Healing

G’Afternoon fellow muddies! I’m glad to see everyone’s knee deep in conspiracy theories today. Beats being knee deep in the never-ending Sarah *all day all the time* interviews. Must. keep. her. face. in. front. of. the. camera. What I wouldn’t give to see a Barack and Sarah hand-shake caught on tape. With him continuing to shake while twisting her arm out of her socket.😉 Yah, It’s mean Friday! lol

Mother Who Thinks (09:19:51) : Thank you for sharing your honest experience here. Your feelings are very real, the struggles to get to that feeling of acceptance is raw. Most parents (that I know and have read about) who have DS children eventually come to the realization that their life has been truly blessed with the addition of their special child.

All of that being said, we’re back to the Sarah/Trig theory (as well as some other interesting ideas lol). Sarah talks about being blessed with a DS son but hasn’t stayed home long enough to even change a diaper let alone bond. Denial? Maybe. But the other *rumors* are just too strong and the fact that could be a piece of supporting evidence disappears as quickly as it is discovered. At this point, even producing a birth certificate- can’t they be doctored? Honestly, she doesn’t act like a grandmother either the way she slings that poor baby outward with one arm holding him from falling. Even Todd had had two arms there for support during one of those interviews. But I have to say one thing, as whack as she seems, Sarah certainly does have a very loyal circle of friends and family.

It seems to me that her oldest daughter has been MIA in the last two years more than she’s been seen. Five months of confining mono?? That conjures up a very sickly kid in an ICU unit. And now she’s totally vanished from view of any cameras? Has anyone seen Bristol since the RNC?

Geez, do you think Sarah would agree to sodium pentothal and clear all of this up once and for all?

14 11 2008
InJuneau

@Marty (VA) (09:27:24) :

That is beautiful! Thank you for sharing.

14 11 2008
BigSlick YES WE CAN! Clamp Noodle Palin

Forty Watt (09:16:05) :

@ megacephalus (07:42:32) :

if one choses to participate in the military for whatever reason, it is a CHOICE and I see no reason why we should join the whining.

For many it’s not much of a choice. If you watched the coverage of soldiers killed in Iraq, when the media still covered such things, many families talked about the lack of employment opportunities in their communities together with the lack of money to attend college. Joining the military may not have been the only choice out of few, and none of them good, but in terms of getting an education it often was the best one.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@Forty Watt and Megacephalus

You simply cannot blame the individual US troops or call them whiners. Unacceptable! Less than half are lifetime or career military personnel.

For those who are not career soldiers, it certainly wasn’t the choice they thought it was, if it even there was some element of choice somewhere in the chain of events that led each to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Don’t forget that this is a historic deployment of the US National Guard Reserves in both its scale and the fact that it is an active war on foreign soil.

The Bush Administration’s deployment of the Guard was their underhanded way of avoiding a formal Military Conscription Draft which would have been immensely unpopular, opposed by Congress, and challenged in the Supreme Court. It is the dirtiest of dirty deeds performed by GW and Cheney.

Instead of going through proper legal checks and balances that would have stopped the illegal war from escalating, they pulled another creative and legally questionable manipulation of the Executive Powers granted the President in time of war by calling up the National Guard.

A lot of our soldiers thought they were signing up for local community service deployments or at worst a clean up in the aftermath of natural disasters such as Katrina. The traditional role of the National Guard is to be on call during times of DOMESTIC emergency. Bush sent our week-end warriors into battle, and unlike 19-year-olds who didn’t want to fight in Vietnam they couldn’t just burn their draft cards or run away to Canada – most had families and established lives that were now being held ransom by their own government. Most responded bravely and dutifully to the call, and honorable soldiers in a dishonorable war they became.

Many of the troops who enlisted in the Army/Marines (not the Guard) during the early phases of the war were told 6 months and its done, the main action will be complete -sign now and the war will be finished by the time you get out of boot camp and you might be put on patrol in an occupied yet pacified Baghdad.

So remember we haven’t just sent the young into the line of fire this time, we have sent a large number of fathers of established families and those families are completely disrupted now regardless of whether those fathers come back, come back injured, or make the ultimate sacrifice in service to the US people. It’s not a matter of “if” their lives and families are being destroyed, it is a matter to what degree and it is compounded by the cascading effect of the trauma passed on to their families buth up and down the line of inheritance.

Their wives and children are struggling, facing poverty in many cases, because their husbands dutifully wanted to contribute to their local state National Guard and its care for the comunity in times of need. Their parents are deprived of the adult sons and daughters who they depend upon to support them in their retirement years. Despite the cost to their families, most of these “suddenly soldiers” are so proud to serve their country they will not complain unless seriously wronged, so it is not WHINING. To call our brave troops WHINERS is a comment that offends me to the core.

What a shock to sign up to serve your community, sometimes for as much as 15 years or more, and then be told you are going to Iraq, then again be told you are going back again and again, and by the way, when you return your job is gone, your medical bills are not covered and you are still on call for another term of service if you aren’t too badly damaged from your previous three or four deployments. And your spouse and kids? No clothes, no food, no parenting support, poor medical support , and the US government line of BS — “you’re on your own, soldier, buck up and tell the wife and kids its part of the privilege of serving in the US Armed Forces!”

The biggest epic fail of Bush/Cheney and the Repugs was not the economy, we will work through these problems given time. It is the irresponsible warmongering that is most vile. Our economic disaster is but a symptom of the criminal acts perpetrated by the Bush Administration. Our honorable military, whether career soldiers or not, have been treacherously abused and used as cogs in an illegal and irrational war machine. We now reap what we have sown.

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are war criminals and should be tried in court for the crimes they have perpetrated against the people of Iraq – and even more so for the crimes they have perpetrated against their own fellow US citizens here at home. They have waged war AGAINST – not on behalf of – We, the American People. Treason, I say, TREASON!!!! JUSTICE, I CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE!!!!!!!!

14 11 2008
Marty (VA) Mudstock DC Inaugural Party.. reply to mudstockdc@hotmail.com

Injnu, I think most missed it.. did it right before the new thread.. sorta long so i won’t repost..

but thanks for the nice words🙂

14 11 2008
BigSlick YES WE CAN! Clamp Noodle Palin

@Mother Who Thinks (09:19:51) :

Thank you for sharing your experience. My cousin is now 26 years old and self-sufficient to the point where she is living alone for the first time in her life. She has a job, friends, and wonderfully supportive parents. She also has Downs and has overcome so many challenges in life, only to give back so much with cheerfulness and hugs for all around her.

My Aunt really struggled with her decision to keep Katie, but once decided she and my Uncle committed to raising and supporting her with all of their soul. I really couldn’t understand their decision at the time, but I respected this choice and their faith in a Christian god that I myself do not share. And my Aunt now says that Katie taught her the true meaning of family, and how to truly experience love in its finest form.

I am so glad she kept Katie and proud of her for the way she has dedicated her life to Katie. And I am so very proud of Katie as well. Katie makes every Christmas, every Thanksgiving even (and I HATE Thanksgiving Day!), a joyful event with her charm and exuberance. She is truly happy to be surrounded by family and I often lose sight of this with my jaded attitude towards the overly-commercialized holidays and gatherings that often devolve into family feuds. I probably wouldn’t have gone to many of my family get-togethers if Katie’s smile and hugs weren’t waiting for me there.

The difficulties Katie experiences, the worry her parents and siblings feel for her as she matures, and the worry that we, her extended family all feel to this day are still very real. But we love her and she loves us back 10 times over.
I may not be a Christian but I do know when my life has been blessed, and I hope that I can return even 1% of the blessing I receive from Katie back to her.

Regardless of whether Sarah Palin is Trigs grandmother, or mother, or whatever, she needs to get a clue and start respecting that kid. Now. He is her blessing but she however, is definitely not his at this point.

14 11 2008
katiebegood

InJuneau (10:21:56) :
@Jamie, Floridian in France (07:31:03) :
Palin’s doctor didn’t/doesn’t have admitting privilages at the Anchorage hospitals, so there was no way she could have met her there to have the baby.

Actually, that’s not true. Hospitals give temporary privileges to doctors all the time. If this doctor had called an Anchorage hospital and told them the circumstances (early birth special needs child), as long as she was a Board Certified Physician, she would have been granted temporary privileges to deliver the baby.

14 11 2008
Gardenslug

I went to check the Larry King transcripts to be sure I had heard Gov. Palin’s statement about the Trigg Mystery correctly. Here is what she said:
“Well, it wasn’t naive, not after Barack Obama came out and said that his wife was off limits. Why should my children, then, have been this assumed target? And they were and that was unfair. But, yes, I thought it was ridiculous, not so much the reporting on my children, but the lies that were told about my children and about my own record. That — you know, stupid things, Larry, you know, like who is Trig’s real mother? And mainstream media wouldn’t correct the erroneous assumptions or suggestions in a story like that?”
I was struck when she said this because to me, it sounded like an invitation for the “mainstream media” to delve into the rumors and prove her improbable birth story for her. She took no ownership of the strange birth story and her failure to produce the birth certificate or other records that would have squashed the rumors.

14 11 2008
Mother Who Thinks

@ BigSlick YES WE CAN! Clamp Noodle Palin (11:16:27)

Thank you. It doesn’t always feel like a blessing when you are in the trenches. But you muddle on, hoping to someday write your own “success stories.”

It helps to distract oneself with other concerns, hence my Palin obsession!

14 11 2008
Anne

@ Mother Who Thinks

Kudos to you for meeting your child with such heedfulness, and through that, finding love.
Your account of SWWNBN’s bonding failure rings true.

I’m a great believer in Occam’s razor. But in this case, there is so little of which we can be sure. I can credit that the story of giving a speech, enduring long distance flights, driving out to Wasilla, etc, while leaking amniotic fluid, is merely self-heroising exaggeration/fantasy. I can even credit that, if true, the apparent recklessness was a kind of denialist leave-it-to-God fatalism.

But there are so many other weird factors – nothing stacks up. Nothing easily explains the decision to throw Bristol to the media pack, unless it was simply a really really, bad, stupid decision. If the McCain camp thought people would accept B’s current pregnancy as the one incontrovertible proof, it just shows how little respect they have for normal tokens of proof, like medical records and birth certificates. And how anxious they might have been.

I’d wondered why no-one simply strolled over to the Registrar’s office to check the birth registration for themselves. You can certainly do this in England – it’s open to everyone.

But as you guys doubtless know already, in the land of the free, this information is not. Alaskan births don’t become public records until 100 years after the event. I am amazed. Truly amazed.

However, if you’ve been through life believing that this sort of thing is a private record, then perhaps a reluctance to produce the certificate is slightly more understandable. Even if it contains no information that isn’t already in the public domain, it must still feel like a privacy violation. (Remember, the privacy here is Trig’s own, as well as his parents’.) Nevertheless, in the light of the feverish speculation that followed, I still don’t understand why she didn’t say: Here’s the certificate, now enough with the fantasy – and leave my family out of it! Unless they thought that even a birth certificate might be doubted. (Now where have I heard that before?)

And that’s to say nothing of the weird circumstantial dissonances like the secret pregnancy, the lack of proud Mom & Dad birth photos, the expunging of other photos from the web… And the fact that these rumors started even before she got tapped by McCain.

Who ever believed that anything about SWWNBN had to be consistent or make sense?

14 11 2008
Anne

Oops. A link was trashed due to my poor html skillz:

Alaskan birth certificates.

14 11 2008
Anne

sigh.
Alaskan birth certificates.

14 11 2008
Anne

double sigh
Alaskan birth certificates

http://www.hss.state.ak.us/dph/bvs/

14 11 2008
SC Sista M Cluckhead

Wow. Things got CRAZY here, while I was gone!
I like it.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome kids don’t really look that much like DS kids and like DS kids, the severity of the condition varies. FAS kids have a tendency to be kind of long and thin in body build–opposite of DS kids, in some ways–and there’s usually a certain look about their eyes and the upper lip (philtrum, to be precise). They usually have a bit of a high, squeaky voice, too. I’ve only worked with a couple of them and it’s sad because THAT condition CAN be prevented and fairly easily, at that. There are untold numbers of genetic conditions that are not predictable.
And I really don’t even know why FAS was a subject of the thread? But I’ll share my miniscule knowledge of it, anyway…

14 11 2008
InspectorT

Smiley test:

80

14 11 2008
InspectorT

Smiley test two:
🙂

15 11 2008
Ginny

One big issue for a child born to an unwed teen must be health insurance. Trig will, I presume, have Medicaid. However, knowing how overwhelming expenses for specially challenged kids can be (I have an autistic nephew), would it be out of the question that SP is lying to keep him on a great, State-sponsored insurance package? She doesn’t mind fraud much.

15 11 2008
Ginny

No one has mentioned what seems so clear from what we’ve seen: Bristol loves this little boy. How sad if he IS her child and she is never allowed to claim him as his mother.

Is it my imagination, or did the story that “SP was induced” changed to “SP had a Cesarean section” last week? Back to work in two days would be quite improbable if that’s so




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